BTW, the lead in these was sewn into the back of the hand and fingers, ostensibly for protection.

Might be getting off topic, but what about the reverse; how does thick clothing or whatever you are wearing for that matter, affect how you can use your preferred style/s?

I was asked at training the other night why i generally wear jeans and sandals, rather than the normal training garb. Simply because thats what i 'live in' (student and casual tutor), so i might as well get used to working within those restrictions. Xing Yi seems unaffected by different clothing and footwear styles i.e. don't seem to have to make adjustments.

Clothing has a big effect on some styles (I posted on some specifics of this years ago). Quick recap:

One may be in condition to do a certain high kick in loose-fitting clothes; but trying that same high kick in tight fitting jeans could (& probably will) adversely affect the result. If your art uses such kicks, then test 'em out in a variety of clothing & discard restrictive clothing (esp. if you're a hot babe) or discard the technique.

Techniques involving pivots are affected by the surface one's upon & the sole of one's shoe (or sock, or one's bare foot). Again, test out & discard as necessary.

Using a large chest protector during sparring practice will affect one's range of motion (so think small when it comes to wearing chest protectors -- this way your sparring will be a bit more realistic).

Wearing heavy clothing (& using saps) weighs one down; the saving grace is that it usually helps to end conflicts quickly (while protecting the wearer/user) -- one doesn't want to ever have to struggle... esp. for a long time... esp. in heavy clothing (you don't want to become a heat casualty... you don't want to sapp your energy).

It's the old principle of armored protection (shelter) vs mobility (incl. range of motion, speed, duration of usage, etc.) & visibility (try a variety of kicks with an overly large chest protector on & discover how this affects your visibility; likewise, ask a hockey player how he can possibly use some of your clothing against you to affect both your visibility & your range of motion simultaneously).

How about wearing a flak jacket or somekind of body armor? Do you think the Marines spar wearing their full combat gear? I don't know. I wish someone can give some information about it. How would you strike the vital point of a Marine in full combat gear?

do you dweebs really think you can affect a resisting opponent with VITAL POINT SRTIKES? I mean, maybe the eyes, throat or groin but what fantasy world are you living in?

How would I strike a Marine in full combat gear- with a handgrenade.

Yes, Shane, I think I can effect an opponent with vital point strikes, and I'm not living in a fantasy world either.

I don't know about the new-fangled flak jack's, but with the old ones, the average guy would just be wasting his time & energy (while risking injury) trying to effect a punch through one; best to strike were the jacket (& helmet?) isn't protecting: armpit, eyes/nose, throat, & vagus nerve regions, plus various regions south of the vest (starting with the groin area & working down from there to the feet); the vest can be grabbed around the armpit/shoulder, neck, or waist areas to effect a throw or take-down.

Of course, a grenade works well if it's inside of the vest when it explodes (but unless you're suicidal, you best position yourself & the flak-jacket-wearing "victim" well in relation to the grenade... this is possible, but a bit tricky; same for a person without such a jacket); outside of the vest, it may or may not cause injury (esp. serious injury... as a general rule of thumb, you've got to get a grenade really close to a guy for it to have good effect... same with claymore mines; such weapons have a very short casualty radius/distance). That reminds me of the famous SEAL-seeking grenade (but I'll save that story for another time). I'd prefer to use a rifle outside of grenade range (as full-metal-jacketed bullets generally go through flak jack's).

I'll just say that I've known several Marines & SEALs who've been around exploding grenades, and the only ones who ever died were practically right on top of the darn things. Flak jackets do their main job well (they stop a lot of -- lightweight -- flak; they also work well as a short overcoat in cold weather; & they protect the back, chest, ribs & upper abs well from punches & some body slams; they're also good for making field-expedient stretchers for med-evacs).

There are some "tricks" to getting at vital spots (I prefer vital regions) with an attacking &/or resisting, moving opponent -- sometimes the opponent gives it to you on a silver platter (thank you very much -- POW!), & sometimes your own move(s) set it up. Often there's some sort of clinch involved, but not always.

P.S.: Even though I would prefer to use a rifle over a grenade (on a flak-jacket wearing opponent); and even though a bullet may go through a flak-jacket (some new jackets have inserts which reduce the chances of this happening), I would still aim where there is no armor: like Gordon Liddy said (words to the effect of) "one in the groin, two in the head." At a reasonable distance I'd take out a leg or two & then move on (of course it depends upon the circumstances, but that's the general idea: shoot-n-scoot; same with bare hands on the street: hit-n-run... no, I'm not discussing a criminal act with a motor vehicle, thank you). It's a lot like boxing... you go after what's available first in an attempt to make an opening (you don't go directly after what's well guarded/protected... striking certain areas comes later once the opponent's guard is lowered or you otherwise get around his guard).

P.P.S.: You can also easily turn/spin someone around by gripping their flak-jacket in various ways. Oh, if you can toss such an opponent into deep water, then there's a good chance that you'll end up drowning him (esp. if all the other heavy junk is also being worn).

Oh, just so you don't think I'm targeting US Marines, (perish the thought), other countries' soldiers, marines, police death squads, etc. have been known to wear flak-jackets too.

I read somewhere that certain vital point strikes are time sensitive. For example, If you hit a person's heart meridian at the hour of the dragon three days later his heart would explode like a firecracker. I don't know about you but this is the kind of skill I want to learn!

Hey Shane, don't be hatin'! Maybe your sifu hasn't shown you any vital point strikes. Just because you don't know doesn't give you the right to diss guys who are trying figure out this kind of skill. It ain't no fantasy!

Mike, you've always given great information. Keep up the good work. It seems you're the only one with the voice of reason around here.

Kenneth, would you mind sharing some of your vital point strike training? You sound very interesting and knowledgeable.

"interesting and knowledgeable"? LOL, that's what I tell girls, but they still don't believe me! My sifu could find vital points on your body with such casual ease, the only thing that I can say on that is lots of practice and familiarization, there are several good books on acupuncture available. Cross reference these with Yang Jwing Ming's "Shaolin Chin Na", there is a section on "hitting points" in there. You can get a good working knowledge on the basics you can practice with. The reason I recommend that particular book is that Dr. Ming is responsible as well as knowledgeable, and you can avoid all the sensationalistic "death touch" crap out there. Most of these other books were written for us to gasp in awe at the "lethal knowledge" of the writers, who copied their techniques out of old texts, usually the okinawan "Bubishi". These old texts are sometimes as full of myth as they are medical knowledge and should be considered untested (for obvious reasons). Bear in mind that the chinese are VERY protective of this knowledge so its not like you can walk up to an acupuncturist and ask him (even if he knew that side of it), he'd probably look at you like you were crazy. As for the delayed effects of certain strikes, remember that your attacker keeling over 2weeks AFTER bashing in your skull does you absolutely no good. Also, it isn't magic; the medical conditions that arise from such a strike are often directly attributable to that strike (assuming you did it properly and it worked. A healthy target can overcome the effects many times. If you really needed someone dead, you'd probably want a more immediately observable result). Such techniques were for assassination, not immediate self-defense (although the best defense is still a good offense). And finally, the timetables! Are they eastern standard time or pacific?? I used to seriously wonder about stupid stuff like that, but here is the answer as it was shown to me, and I know I will get accusations of being a "chi hugger" and "squirrel rapist" and what-not, but here goes. The old chinese didn't usually wear wristwatches. A fighter, through years of abdominal breath and chi'kung training, will intuitively feel the best times simply by being in tune with the chi cycles around him (something to this effect minus the corny translation). This takes constant centeredness, and I doubt us mere mortals are dedicated enough to become like Cain on "kung fu". So this knowledge has its own built-in safeguard. Me, personally, from what I have seen, believe this explanation.

Hey bulletproofpunk,

How about 'monkey grab my balls vital point' you goof. i've seen alot of pressure point adds from that guy diillon. he knows alot about it. If it works so good how come everyone doesn't use it?

My friend had a copy of that book the bubuska. All this time who knew the 16th century Okinawans were such intellectuals when it came traditional chinese medicine. I read an articule where they put little dots on someones body like with magic marker and all of a sudden that guy knew the secrets. Yah, what a load of crap.

Shano seems like the bulletheadpuke doesn't like you. you two make a lovely couple

'monkey grabs (someone else's) balls...'

...then pull... an excellent close-combat technique which will cause the ball-pulled assailant to bend forward at the waist (a good set up for a few other excellent techniques, both friendly, not-so-friendly, & deadly); but this is a very unfriendly set-up -- not one to use on someone that you really don't want to feel too badly after it's all over (for a buddy who's just drunk & picking a fight, use another, more comfortable method... unless he's picking that fight with a deadly weapon... then go for it).

Mike, I've got to ask, what's a SEAL-seeking grenade?

Monk,

That skill you speak of is called 'Dim Mock' for good reason. It's for Mocking Dim people.

When do you think somebody will start using vital point strikes in the UFC or Pride? Those guys don't wear shirts at all, except for Royce Gracie, he wears a gi. Wouldn't it be easy to find vital points on those guys? I mean Yang Jwing Ming could maim guys with his index finger. He wrote all those books he must be the real deal.

I wonder how I could go about finding a teacher locally that would teach me these secrets? It's obviously not for everybody. Most people are pretty dim and simple to understand such mysteries. Not me, I got an A in Biology class once.

Bulletproof Punk,

Tim's postings are generally the most consistantly sane responses you'll find on these discussion boards (that is, when he's not just being downright hilarious).

Much of what I once thought I knew of pressure points has been tossed out or ammended after getting several doses of reality from Tim.

So, I'll post again: there is something to pressure-point manipulation; only a little of it is easily pulled off; a lot of it depends on many variables (whether known or unknown), so that results do often vary greatly. Note that most pressure-point knockout demonstrations are done against a person standing still & complancient at an angle necessary for the demonstration (no adreniline rush going on, no will to do the demonstrator harm, blood not flowing well, no anger involved, etc.). I know of only one such area that consistantly results in KO's or TKO's under just about any circumstance, but it can't be counter-attacked unless it's given as a gift, or I set things up for it first (it's like using a throw, or a chin-na technique -- for it all depends on what the assailant does &/or whether or not I can set up the proper conditions myself... & I don't mean waiting 'til 15:33 Zulu time either... for it's all about distance, angle, & timing, but not splitting-hairs-over-time-of-day-or-night-or-time-zones timing... heh, heh...thought you had me there, eh?).

Do yourselves a favor: study with Tim & learn Shen Wu; then spend the rest of your lives studying the other neat stuff, because Shen Wu teaches the strategies & skills necessary to fight efficiently; and without that, it doesn't matter how much one knows (or one thinks he knows) about pressure points. Shen Wu will have you hitting so hard that it won't really matter too much what vulnerable region you hit, you're going to do damage when you strike (unless you hold back a lot... & there are friendly methods in Shen Wu as well, so you don't have to harm everyone that accosts you).

Watch the movie "Sparticus" (starring Kirk Douglas)... pay attention to how vital & not-so-vital areas (regions) are shown to the gladiator trainees. This is a very reasonable approach (explaining blade-fighting vulnerable areas; a similar approach is also good for explaining unarmed-fighting vulnerable areas); don't look to counter-attack a number-2-pencil-eraser-sized "gall-bladder-point #whatever" & another equally small point or two... instead plan to use larger, vulnerable regions to good effect (and you may find that by skillfully counter-attacking some non-vital regions that some vital/vulnerable regions may open themselves up to your counter-attack).

Recently a wheelchair-bound grandma took on about six airport security guards in close-quarters combat & hospitalized at least five of them before the sixth one stopped her; she didn't split hairs over gall-bladder points, heart-meridians, or time-of-day... she just kicked ass (quite well too)!

Tim,

I've gotta get to work now...

I'll tell you about that famous grenade when I get back. Later.

and tell us more about that wheelchair bound grandma.... along with reference sources too!

Bulletproof, Dillman is the only one I ever heard of supposedly teaching such things openly. I have heard both pro and con about him (as usual). Does anyone here have any personal experience with his methods? But I guess Mike said it best.

BTW, I read somewhere once that those old-time chinese assassins using this stuff often masqueraded as doctors, so perhaps that is indicative of how it was often used.