One well known shooting instructor sometimes enters competitions with an intentional handicap just to test ideas he's working on. Suppose you were to enter an 'ultimate fighting championship' type event and go against people such as Dan Severn, Tank Abbot, the Gracies, etc. and limit yourself to a specific style or school of fighting not primarily a grappling style nor including ground fighting. What art or system would you choose? Tim and anybody? Would the answer change with your level of expertise?

Severn,Abbott and the Gracies are all very one dimensional fighters, compared to the new MMA fighters, who are not even labeled by "styles" anymore, for now you must be a complete fighter to be anywhere near the top.

Maybe you mean guys like Frank Shamrock, Tito Ortiz and Randy Corture.

If I have to fight one of those guys...I'd use Pray-Jitsu!

I hav'nt seen these things for a while and am not up on who's top dog. The question remains.

Other than a marked avoidance of remaining on the ground, most traditional combat styles mix striking and grappling. It is the sportified and "zen-ified" versions developed in this century that eventually gyrated towards limiting techniques as real fighting was no longer a consideration. As for Mark's question, I'd say the bottom line is how good one would be in a given style, but all things being equal and considering the size of some of those guys, make mine Nin-Po Taijutsu for technique over strength, and well-roundedness.

There have been three "Taijutsu" guys that I know of that have entered MMA events. Two were beaten miserably and one actually won one of the first events, although he only had to fight traditional artist and a former pro boxer. He never fought a BJJ fighter, judoka, wrestler or kickboxer(the fighters who normally win).

I'd have to go with San Shou or Shuai Jiao.

Whatever stlye would have to have "excellent" footwork and movement, along with very fast hands against a grappler. A "sprawl" would be nice to have, but I can't think of a style that trains sprawling regularly.

Or the style would have to have aggressive and quick takedowns, along with an ability to pin and hit or submit against a sportive style striker.

But again, I don't think the "limiting techniques" is as much of an issue as the way CMA choose to train the techniques they do know and can use.

Backarcher, most would say it is the individual and not the art. Also, like most chinese arts, you'll find 90 percent of those claiming taijutsu are full of crap. I spent a day doing various BJJ techniques a few years ago and found it is the closest thing to taijutsu I've personally experienced. But one big difference is that taijutsu makes absolutely no allowances for rules or sportfighting since they feel that castrates the intent of much of their repertoire, which may be a contributing factor. One thing I'd like to stress: I think you are correct in that "limiting techniques" isn't as big an issue as many claim. Rather, it is the mindset of competition that is so different. But, what can ya do....?

The limiting of techniques, fixed rules, lack of surprise etc developes the 'mind set' rather than the 'mind flexible(?)'.

Here is a quote from a fighter at King of Pancrase,"X is resilient and strong. His escape methods and defense are perfect, and he was a technician, as I EXPECTED. I lost my cool when I saw the indifference in his face as I was trying to lock up his arm. I should have changed pace. When he was on top of me, I was ANXIOUS since I didn't have ANY DATA on what he was going to do, but since he came to hit me, I was able to scoop up his legs."

Tim's tournament which should match similar fighters, but ones unknown to each other, seems more interesting.

I don't think "styles" work like that! If someone becomes a proficient fighter, they tend to transcend their "style". Styles provide learning tools, Ways with which you can teach your body and mind how to respond in different' situations. But fighting is always fighting, Just because two xing yi experts are in the fight, doesn't' make it a "xing yi fight". If you hang out with real martial artists long enough, you will hear them saying to each other, "that looks just like (insert their style here)", This is because all good martial arts teach the same basic principals; cause their subject matter is always the same, the human body! The only major differences you will find in these styles is how large their syllabus is (do they have techniques for the ground? do they practice striking, do they spar, do they have weapons, do they practice throughs and takedowns ect ect). I think a better way to "handicap" yourself (Not that anyone is good enough to worry about this) would be to say, I wont go to the ground, or I'm not going to use my hand strikes.

Hey, I know a guy who likes to grapple with his eyes closed. Kind of creepy, it seems like his enjoying rubbing up on another man, but whatever. Yeah weird, I guess that's his way of handicapping himself. Freak.

Good point, Chris. In Uechiryu we used "handicapped" sparring, I think Tim mentioned that he also uses this. Speaking of handicapping oneself, I notice our credulity on these posts are, as usual, dependant on our past experiences (or lack of). I've seen some odd things, but one thing I have never seen or RELIABLY heard of is someone so good that they can "gently" fight a vicious attacker(s) without harming them. Anyone seen this personally? Perhaps this should be another thread?

Gently fight a vicious attacker? It seems that we do this on a weekly basis when people from other schools visit. Tim does this ALL the time. Seriously!!!

Yeah ken, you should come check out tim, He's the closeist example I have ever seen, and I've been around all these Aikido teachers who are suppost to be great at this, none of them hold a candel to Tim! Hey Meynard, watch out for that guy, he sounds like a weirdo! Closeing your eyes when you grapple, what the hell!

Ken,
You train in Uechi-ryu. I did for many years. I've trained with some of the "heavies." Excellent people.

Had many a Sanchin corrected by Tomoyose, Takara, Inada, Mattson, etc. These guys have taught me more about myself than I can ever express and thank them for.

I would put Tim in a catagory of these guys. In a lot of ways (and this is not to be disrespectful to anyone) he has the "softness" of what others don't or others just write about. Training with Tim is like training with the old time masters you read about. (And I would really like to "get him" while training someday, just once...)

I wouldn't train under any other internal guy (and I've trained with some pretty famous ones). He has it, and he can teach it. (Maybe not to a guy like me but to some of the better guys at his Academy who have an aptitude.)

good training,
Joe

Thanks, guys, I do intend to host Tim here in Chattanooga sometime, but I am finding a scarcity of CMA schools so I may have to go out and "drum up" some interest. Mark, if you get a group together, let me know and I'll contribute and drive back down to Florida to attend. My old sifu never bothered to handle anyone with kid's gloves (I swear he had the local PD paid off), but it makes sense, a guy in Tim's position must constantly be facing thimble-dicks trying to inflate their shriveled egos by getting a cheap shot in on him at seminars and such, and he has to keep himself safe without incurring a lawsuit. Joe, my foundation art is southern mantis, but after my sifu left, I looked for something similiar and ended up at a Uechi dojo for a couple of years. I left because it still wasn't like my sifu's art, but wading through so many southern mantis/bak mei phonies, I have since learned to appreciate it for its own sake and have added Sanchin and Seisan to what I do.