• Archive through May 31, 2004 May 31 - 07:47 am [20]

Brian,

you are pointing out the biggest problem surrounding Qi, Enlightenment and so on: it lends itself well to fantasy, and real life is simply to hard to take . Still I believe there is lots of knowledge in traditional medicine and spirituality, which we don't have to throw away just because others use it for escapist egotrips or whatever. For example, western science is not so good for understanding the connections between mind and body, simply because the systems involved are so complex that there is no good scientific model at the moment. Before I close my eyes to these questions I might want to take a look at the wealth of experience hidden, say, in the eastern traditions.

Greetings,

Dr. Harold

I agree with you, Harold. Don't throw away any model that might be useful. A physician may look at a problem according to the way he was trained. A businessman will see it another way Put in any profession you want and they will see it from another prespective. A liberal arts major may even come up with the "real" problem! I know that no meridians have been shown to exist. But when I'm stumped with a condition that can't be explained from a western perspective, I can usually switch to the eastern mindset and come up with something.

Brian, I've had personal experience with acupuncture more than once, and found it quite effective. No, it can't cure many things, but the practitioners I went to never claimed it did. Now, the last one (I went to him to quit smoking, and no, it wasn't a "placebo" effect, I've tried to quit for years, succeeded once, then went back again a few years later) was an american who spoke of chemical reactions of the body. I never thought to ask him if he believed in chi. Perhaps he thought like you. However, any area of science must be developed according to certain theories and principles. I'm not championing the cause of chi, just that it seems to me that there are far more successes with acupuncture than can be attributed to chance. But then again, in your position, perhaps you know of some studies or statistics, or perhaps handled enough cases involving acupuncture to give an educated guestimate. One thing, though: it is true that many westerners look for cures rather than preventions, and even the best chemical or surgical treatments can't overcome self-destructive habits (I threw that in there because I'm aware of those holistic "doctors" who blame the patients for their lack of success).

Randall,
Good post, I don't discount alternative forms of medical therapy, but like Brian, I often wonder about the historical logic behind them.

Tim, I just look at it as someone explaining things from where they are at in time. Hopefuly, we are smarter now with more knowledge, but sometimes we need to keep the "art" in our sciences.

I heard it put like this once. the dantien and other points along the meridiens are not real but they do work. just as you are not real but you are here and able to do the things you do. The way people explain things is on a superficial level. If a way of doing things works not using it because it does not fit in your neat little view of the world is not very pragmatic.

Randall,
you would not happen to have a famous MA sister would you.

Not that I know of but tell me more.

The surname sounds familiar. I think I remember a female fighter by the name of Rosie Sexton. can not remember what style see practiced though.

"We have the ultimate place to test Qi power, we call it the mat."

I would suplex you with Kong Jin... but it only works on my students or in "Gymkata" matches.

Say, what would be a good definition of "king jin"?

Oops, I mean, "KONG jin".

I was once stretched senseless by a bottle of Kong Gin...

Which is no less ridiculous than the Grandmaster of Qigong (self-styled) who just did a workshop in my hometown. It was $175 for the workshop and one of his first comments to the 25 participants was that they could really only do qigong if they wore the right clothing ... and, you guessed it... he just happened to have a supply of those with him at only $150. an outfit.

He teaches a family style of qigong that he insisted went back 3000 years and has been transmitted in an unbroken manner from father to oldest son in that time. I suppose there was never any war, famine, disease or infertility in his part of China?

I also suppose that if you repeat the same nonsense long enough, after a while you start to believe it.

The only working definition of Kong Jin is internal methane build up released in thunderous external emmissions or Fa.

(whew!) For a while there, I thought I was getting jaded to the things I found on this forum. Thanks for giving me a new lease on life, guys.