I would greatly appreciate Tim's reply to this question but am open to any comments or information as provided by the rabble: What exactly was the "Golden Age" of Chinese martial arts and what kind of historical influence did this have on the culture, people, and government? What is the significance of this age or "movement" and how do the Chinese regard it?

Thanks.

The later Qing dynasty (1800's) through the Republic period (early 1900's).

During this time many of the most popular Chinese martial arts as we know them today were either modified, organized into their present form or invented.

It was also during this time that many of the most famous Chinese martial artists were active.

I'd say that the culture, government and general state of the country during that time had more influence on the martial artists and their lives than the other way around.

Tim,

Which martial arts were modified during the "Golden Age"? Generally, what were the modifications that were made?

Which martial arts were actually invented during this time?

Who were considered the most famous Chinese martial artistis of the time and why were they so active? What was it about this period that motivated them to be so active?

How did the general state of the country during that time influence the martial artists and their lives?

Thanks!

China was in turmoil with major floods and famine affecting parts of the country at different times as well as several diastrous wars with the British and major revolts that were barely supressed with (and sometimes despite) the aide of foreign mercenaries and armies. Oh, and the end of the Manchu Dynasty thanks in part to the so-called Boxer rebellion which brought further conflict with the foreigners. In other words about 100 years of misery from 1840 until the greater tragedy of WW 11.

Such times proved to be particularly salubrious for the development of the martial arts ... out of necessity.

Two books worth reading are "The Paper Dragon: An Account of the China Wars, 1840-1900" by John Selby (19680 as well as "Lost T'ai Chi Classics from the Late Ch'ing Dynasty" by Douglas Wile (1996). The first will give you an idea of the political/military situation in China and the second deals more with the martial/taiji situation in that time.

One of the Rabble

Is it true that the large golden bell training was lost after the boxer rebellion?

Someone on a Northern shaolin baord wrote this:
"A person who is skilled in Small Golden Bell has the ability, not conditioned his body, to absorb punches and kicks from his opponent while Large Golden Bell is a developed skill that will not allow any sharp objects like spears, swords and sabers to penetrate the skin. In other words the skin become an armor against cutting weapons.

The real Large Golden Bell Art is lost. Many practitioners of this art thought or were lead to believe that LGB could stop bullets but later discovered it was not true. Many of them lost their lives during the Boxer Rebellion because of this false belief.

However, there are some masters today who claim that they practice LGB. And they can and will demonstrate their ability to stop spears to their throats. We have all seen this in demos. But many of the older generation masters who know (I'm talking about the real old Dragons) will continue to say that the real LGB is a lost art."

Also what about lightness skill?

Interesting information Mr. Babin, and I got a vocabulary lesson too ("salubrious"). I'll have to consult your references for my research.

I see some similarities to America poking its nose in Iraq for oil. Boxer rebels = terrorists. That's kind of a neat analogy. Modern day imperialism/colonialism, how things really haven't changed.

So correct me if I'm wrong here, but the common Chinese people were poor, hungry, and pissed off, ultimately leading to an uprising against the foreigners, as well as against the dynastic government. Plus, you have the strong influence of the cultic sect, Pai-lien Chiao (White Lotus society), which is tied to the teaching of kung fu, Chinese alchemy/superstitions, and anti-government sentiments, teaching Chinamen that they are impervious to the bullets unleashed from the barrels of the Waiguoren's Western firearms.

How many of these "golden age" martial artists were members of the I Ho Chuan sect of the cult?

My understanding is that Yin Fu was the bodyguard of the Empress Dowager. Is this true? Was she a Manchu conservative? What's her connection to the Qing (Ching) dynasty? Was she trying to save face during this mess? With so many Chinamen angry at the government, what was her political position during the rebellion?

With China being such a closed society for so many years, how did this sleeping dragon become so immersed with foreign influence?

Just a few more questions to add to an interesting discussion. The answers to these questions would be greatly appreciated. But I don't want to get to far off onto a tangent. I'm interested in understanding the culture and how the martial arts influences and relates to it during 19th Century China. I'm picturing images of kung fu masters duking it out in the streets of Beijing or Shanghai, people angry and depressed, gangs of Chinamen (criminal types), underground schools for kung fu, etc. I'm not trying to romanticize the atmosphere or over-dramatize it, but I just want to understand it.

http://www.jingmo.org/images/386_WLS_and_Saber_Jun23_0315AM.jpg

Jairo,

To add a little to Michael's response:

"Which martial arts were actually invented during this time?"

Some of the more popular styles created in this period include:

Yang style Taijiquan
Wu Jianquan style Taijiquan
Wu Yuxiang style Taijiquan
Sun style Taijiquan
Zhaobao style Taijiquan
Bagua Zhang (and all of its substyles)
Liuhe Bafa
Yi Quan
Five Element Xingyiquan (including Hebei and Shanshi branches)
Hua Quan
Zhimen Quan
Ziran Men
Wu Zhu Quan
Qi Xing Tanglang Quan (Seven Step Preying Mantis)

And in the South,

Hung Gar
Choy Lay Fut

Enforcer,
"Large Golden Bell" isn't a lost art. There isn't now nor has there ever been any method of making the body impenetrable to edged weapons. These kinds of fantastic stories were made popular in the "martial hero" novels of a century ago.

ps And for the rest of you who need to know, there are no hobbits either.

Tim if it isn't a lost art than have you met any large golden bell experts? And if so how is it different from small golden bell?

here are the threads:

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29042&highlight =all+china+tournament

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33243

by the way tim have you witnessed the art of lightness?

I hate when people deny the existence of hobbits!!! It makes me so very angry.

Enforcer,

I have witnessed the art of deez nutz.

It is a pity that 95% of most martial artists are fantasizers. If you lie to yourself you will lie to others.

Jairo, what's wrong with a healthy dose of imperialism? Just like the US invasion of Iraq was good for the Iraqis, the multi-national exploitation of China galvanized the chinese into nationalistic action, where previously, they had been a bunch of weak, lazy opium addicts. If someone is going to squander what he has, he shouldn't squall because someone else makes use of them. Arabs were just camel-riding over the oil which made them rich because of OUR need for it (even though it is our work and technology that brings it up). Go try driving your car or heating your home in wintertime without oil before castigating our government about trying to amass it. And watch what happens to the value of your money (your ability to purchase essentials, that is, not buy "playstation 4") should our major corporations flounder.

"Golden Bell" isn't a martial technique. It is conditioning of the muscles of the torso to "massage" the internal organs for health. This can toughen one up to better recieve blows (and is used as such in some combat systems), and some of its training is similiar to chinese/okinawan forms training, but nobody with any smarts trains slugging it out toe-to-toe with someone as a primary strategy. The "large" and "small" stuff, blocking swords, etc. was ejaculated from the blue balls of imagination, I would think.

The highest I've ever seen someone run up the side of a wall was about 6-7 feet, but it was redirected momentum, not "chi" (but then again, I've never seen an okapi either). Now, as we become more knowledgeable about western martial arts such as bare-knuckle boxing and renaissance-era wrestling, it is becoming apparent that Asia didn't possess a monoply on CQB systems, so I think if such a thing as "light body" existed as described in chinese dime novels, it would have been seen in other parts of the world also.

Lest anyone think I'm an "angry white male" envious of and callous towards Asia, I'm half asian myself.

Kenneth Sohl
Imperialist Dog and Hobbit-cynic
(P.S. Tolkien can't hold a candle to Robert E. Howard)

Just a little historical note to point out that the Chinese were addicted to opium because of western imperialism. The so-called Opium Wars between the Chinese Government and her Majesty's forces were instigated by the Brits to force the Chinese to allow the import of British traded opium into China whose government was trying to prevent such import for a variety of reasons.

In modern terms that would be like the Columbian Government waging war with the USA over the American attempts to stop the trade in cocaine.

By the way, I believe in "hobbits" ... in fact my wife insists that I have a number of the dirty variety!

Kenneth,

Sorry Bubba, but American soldiers' lives are not measured in oil, nor are those of the Iraqis. I would love to believe we went to Iraq to "free" the Iraqis, but it all comes down to O.I.L.: Oil, Israel, Logistics. You may think you need your precious comforts of home, but if you were to lose a loved one in he Middle East over oil or your ass was on the line for it, you might think a little different.

So be very carefull who you try to voice your pathetic little opinion to on the practicality of American imperialism.

I understand the vicious cycle of money and how our world and country revolves around it. I don't need an economics/political science lesson from the likes of a snot-nosed punk like you.

Enforcer,

"Tim if it isn't a lost art than have you met any large golden bell experts?"

Read the second sentence of my post (right after the first sentence).


"by the way tim have you witnessed the art of lightness?"

No.

Hobbits aren't REAL?!?!?!?! What! I've spent the better part of my 17 years of life trying to find a real live colony of hobbits. They are sneaky little creatures and so far have eluded my efforts to capture one but that doesn't mean they aren't real. Who would make 3 movies (it'll be 4 when they finish the Hobbit movie) about something made up? This is America. Yeash. Next someone will say Jackelopes aren't real. Or that the Kermit the frog is a puppet.

And more on topic. I've seen a lot of research on golden bell training to make one's skin tough enough to withstand swords and spears. They use dull weapons in demonstratiosn. Most swords and spears won't even cut you unless you put some pressure on their blades. Dull the blade a good bit and you would have to swing it fairly hard to cut someone with it. And also, the weapons are doctored by either using very flexibly poles for spears so when they are pushed the pole bends instead of penetrating skin or they use VERY little carbon in the steel for swords so they bend. Its all showmanship. I could doctor up 20 wooden boards or large blocks of concrete and break them and unless you tested the material yourself it would appear to be genuine. Its all showmanship.

As for toughening up your body to withstand punches and kicks. Yeah, I believe it. Simply lifting weights will make your bones 20% denser. Years of hard training will make your bones very strong. Also, hard training will make all your muscles and connective tissues stronger also so blows will have less effect. But there are limits. I'd say most pro boxers and other striking fighters of high caliber have undergone iron bell training, either the western style with lifting weights, doing abdominal exercises, using the medicine ball and sparring to build hit-resistant or oriental methods with their chi-hugging mumbo jumbo clouding up the real scientific principles behind it.

Actually, you can press the sharp edge of a blade against your skin with force and it won't cut (often used principle in the standing on sharp swords demonstrations).

Sharp edges cut when they slide across the surface of the skin as pressure is applied.