I was walking by this stool near a shop where some teenage kid threw something that almost hit me (looked like a seed or a bottle cap). At first I didnt think nothing of it as they didn't laugh but as I kept walking I thought they did it and when later I turned around they were all looking at me (there was like 7-8 teenage kids there). Now they were smaller (I'm 20) and I could crush them but it was in middle of town near some stores and alot of people so I kept walking. After I got home I later decided to confront them about this and I came back and they werent there so i kept walking and saw 3 of them in an alley. I walked up to them at first they seemed to ignore me so i thought I'm being stupid and they didn't really do it but I wanted to talk to them about it. When I walked to them one of them was trying to walk by me so I asked him why they threw something at me. Another one of them said that it was him and he flicked something at him, So I asked him why. He said that he is flickery fingers or something so instead of asking him to apologise I somehow took that as he accidentally did it and told him "Oh I thought you guys were trying to start •••• or something." One of them I think the same one said "No we weren't". So I walked off, but when I was leaving I heard them yelling something at me like "I'm scared" and I said "What!" and they talked some more ••••. I was kind of far but decided to turn around and this time slap one of them or put them in a choke or a wristlock or something. They were on scateboards and I didn't feel like chasing after them so I kept walking and they kept riding away from me. They would stop and I thought they got alot of balls so I can confront them again where they stopped but after I started getting closer they would ride off again and eventually I lost them.

Than the next day I just went to town andrecognized one of them sitting in a group in front of starbucks. They were wearing hats and it was hard to recogize them plus they had like 4 friends there as well. I was gonna walk by them but than at the last instant I turned around and said "hey were you the guys that were talking •••• the other day" and one of them said "who where" and I pointed where it was and said they were being disrespectful to people, one of them said "oh it was James he accidentally flicked a bottle cap that landed near you" and I said alright, and one gave me a high five and a fist to fist type thing and another said "one for me as well" and I gave him one walked by. My question is this was I being too soft? I saw alot of people looking at me during this scene so i felt weird making one of the standup by the neck andshaking him by the shirt or neck. Should I have done it anyway or did i do the right thing by letting it go?

Frankly, that wasn't very bright. There was a situation which could have escalated into violence, but it didn't. Then you came back, at that point you became the agressor. At that point, if a fight occured, you could not claim self defense. You had been escalating instead of attempting to de-escalate or avoid the potential encounter. Sounds like the biggest problem here was your ego or pride, especially when you kept going back to look for them. A prosecutor would argue that you were hoping to get into a fight.

Look at the second to the last sentence, You proved yourself to be the unlawfull agressor. They offended you so you hunted them down and and committed an act of battery on one of them.

REPEAT: so this sinks in: They insulted you, the incident was over, then you went back to them and physically attacked one of them.

You became the criminal.

You need to read the best (and simplest) text on the use of force. 'In The Gravest Extreme' by Massad Ayoob.

To help clinch his case against you, a prosecutor would make a great emphasis to a jury about your self styled name of 'Enforcer'. They would state that shows that you have appointed yourself as a comic book type 'Punisher' character.

you should have done the right thing initially when the kid tossed something at you. Skampering home first didn't help you look very impressive to those kids.

I agree with setting kids straight when they need it- being cool about- but letting them know the deal. It goes a long way if handled well. (I'm not talking about aggression at all.)

It sounds like Mark Hatfield is flirting with fantasy lawyer land as much as you are flirting with tough guy in dangerous city land)

You did the right thing at first and that was nothing(physical).

If you are 20 and they are about 15, that is assault on a minor, and a possible law suit.

so even if touched them or grabbed their ear it would be assault on a minor? I remember when I was like 11 and threw some dirt across the fence and hit a guy by accident (this time it was an accident and note I was not 14 like those kids) some guy jumped over and grabbed me by my shirt. Could I have filed lawsuit than?

I forgot to add that when I was leaving and walked off awhile they screamed something like "wooooo" should I have turned around and this time got physical or agressive with them because of that or since they didnt directly insult me just let it go?

Further, the tv and newspapers will all report 'Man attacks group of children'. You would be crucified in the media and by a prosecutor. These are facts of life, more common than you realize. You must be prepared for it.

I do have legal training regarding the use of force, not simply having 'been to a class, or 'having read a book'. You guys have no idea what you're getting into. Even if you are fully justified in a fight you can still end up in prison. A number of you reading this will think that I am full of ••••, this only means that you are frightfully naieve on this subject.

Always expect and plan for the fact that after a physical comflict, there will be a second one, legal. You must always be able to show two things. 1. That you did what you did because you had to do it. and 2. What you did was the correct thing to do.

I offer you all a challenge. Take fifty to three hundred dollars, get a consultation with a criminal lawyer, ask them to read this line of posts and give you an opinion. You may be very surprised at what you learn.

People are usually very ignorant about when they can or cannot use force. That consultation could save you a lot of complications in the future.

Enforcer,
Yes. You could have had that man arrested when you were a kid. However, back to the topic. I have law enforcement officers in my family and you would without a doubt be in the wrong if you grabbed a kid by the ear etc.

If one of the kids attacked you and hit you with a rock, stick, bat etc. you would be able to defend yourself, but you better stop as soon as you got that weapon away from them.

The legal aspects are simple. If you have a chance to walk or drive away and do not, you are in the wrong. If you attacked and defend yourself and then become the aggressor beyond defending yourself, then you become the aggressor and in the wrong.

I had to take a class on firearm and self defense law. It is that clear.

Hi,

The best that I can say is that if they were carrying skateboards , watch out! Those things can do some serious damage!

Regards,
Josh

Mr. Hatfield is very correct on his advice to use. I have been doing security in bars for a number of years now and have red lined it more than a few times. I'm referring to Mark's criteria above.
I have been called just about everything anybody would consider insulting. I discovered as long as their talking, it does not matter what they are saying, I am the one in control. In fact, if I smile and I'm extremely polite they usually stop and do what I ask them to do.

Have any of you guys were ever punked or humiliated so badly that you felt mute and felt like you weren't a human being afterwards with no feeling? I had this experience before with groups or packs of teenagers or adults in early 20s or wghatever. Or even single individuals in a setting where I felt I couldnt fight back, because of embarasment or people were watching. This is why I do not want to feel like this again and will try to protect my dignity. I used to have battles with myself everytime I went to sleep in Junior high school because a jock surrounded by his peers would poke me with a ruller, talk •••• about me right in front of me to his friends, puff up his chest in front of me. Eventually what happened was I went to the bathroom and he went in after I was leaving (don't know if it was intentional if he didnt know I was there) and I finally had him alone with no one to watch. SO I grabbed him by the neck and started kneeing him, I than threw an elbow that Is topped right in front of his face (just to prove a point since I didnt feel I needed to hurt him). When he came back he denied everything and made me sound like I was bitched and continued talking trash about me to hsi jock friends. Stuff like this made me so alienated from people that I would feel everyone was after me and started getting paranoid. i felt for instance on the street everyone was trying to stare me down, and I was being punked by everyone. That's why I am defensive about this kinds of stuff. Physical fights are easy to me, the hard part is mentally being able to stand up to people and not back down like I used to. I would always back down form fights unless I got hit first.

The incident I was describing wher eI kneed a guy happened as a junior in High School not Junior High School. But In Junior High school similar stuff happened. Even in my muay thai gym some guy was joking around and I thought he was serious when he started to fling his hand inf ront of my face. This made me feel like he's an enemy, and I didnt react because I didnt want to egt kicked out of the gym, but later I did something to him jokingly like grab him ro something (forgot which) and he didnt respond and laughed so I knew he was only joking and wasnt an enemy. But another guy one time who was new I was holding pads for started aiming at my face, and at first I thought he was joking so I disregarded it, but he was tlaking some smack and I said "what" and he would just mimmick me and say in a sarcastic way "whaaat?" "whaat?". So after class I had the courage to walk up to him and tell him "hitting people in the face or aiming people in the face while holding pads isn't cool". And he was like "I didn't aim for your face or I didn't do that." ANd I just said while shaking my head "that's messed up man, that's messed up." needless to say he didn't show up after that. But another incident happened which I haven't resolved yet recently. I was going to hit the speed bag and I thought this guy wasn't using it since he was standing somwhat near it but not hitting it so I walek dup to it. He started calling me a bitch in a somewhat sarcastic/jokingly manner and throwing some shots at me, we sometimes do light sparrng so I took it as such and threw some hits back, but he started getting mroe agressive and wouldnt stop when it was time to stop before the situation esculated. I frooze for a second in my thoughts and couldnt make up my mind whether to be pissed and go apeshit right in class or let it go and be punked. He kept going even though I wasnt doing anything back, but I couldnt egt myself to do anything since my mind was frozen. Now that I think about it what I should have done was to clinchw ith him and put him in a guillotine choke or hit the back of his ehad instead of throwing weak ass fake punches in front of his face before they touched him. ALso I should have talked •••• back, but I felt unconfident at the time and had other worries in my mind. Generally I am friends with msot of the guys at the gym but there is the occasional person that....

What I plan to do is confront that guy next time at class by either hitting his face with the backside of my hand in a backfist type fashion but not in a loose fist (r no fist) or hit the back of his head with my hand, and when he starts the light sparring •••• just put him in a choke or something. Well that's the plan.

By the way that guy I confronted and told "that's messed up man." never showed up at the gym again.

Enforcer- you crack me up. I think you're joking- but I'll play along.

When I was about 18, had recently moved to LA and wound up on Hollywood Blvd at 11pm being surrounded by about 6 punk gang-bangers who where making funny of my hair, my clothes and just about anything they could think of. It was obvious they could have easily f*ed me up- but they where just cadging my reaction. If I acted like a scared puss- or acted like a tough guy I think they would have probably decided to jump me.

Instead I just laughed along with them saying "I haven't heard that one before" and "damn- I would have dressed better if I'd known there was a fashion contest tonight". They realized they couldn't freak me out (although inside I was thinking I might be a goner)- and they walked on- screwing with someone else.

In general people fish for a reaction- what happens next is often decided by how you react.

I don't buy your kneeing the jock in the bathroom story- it reeks of wannabe teen fantasy.

By the way- if you register for an ID you can edit your own posts so you don't have to post twice in 10minutes. (I'll give you till tomorrow and then I'll register as Enforcer and you'll have to pick a new name to post under).

and you already mentioned that the 'messed up guy' never returned to the gym earlier.

Yes it's a true story. I kneed him in a muay type type of a clinch and at the time I had no martial art training at all besides some japanese jiu jitsu. The guy was alot taller than me so i was somewhat intimdated. afterwards I offered him my hand to shake and let the anger between us go, and he in an angry gruin on his face shook my hand but pushed me as he was going in to piss. I now think that at this point I should have destroyed him but at the time I felt I already punked him enough not to mess with me again with his cronies, but I guess it didn't work.

sure.

you can go back and 'edit' your profile now if you'd rather have 'Enforcer' as your screen name.

Congrats though- I'm impressed you broke down and registered. Things are going to start happening for you now.

Just checking if it works now.

by the way, I went to town a few mins ago tio buy a drink (gardorade) and I saw those same kids in an even larger group. As I was walking by one of them said to another "remember that and something I didn't hear but maybe they were tlaking about me I thought." anyway I kept walking and I said to myself unless they throw something again or say something that clearly insults me personally I wont put my hands on them or egt in their face again, as I already did that twice in 2 days (not putting my hands part just the confrontation part). As I was walking back one of the kids kept staring at me and I stared at him for a few secs waiting to see if he had something to say and he didn't so I looked ahead but realized he was still staring so I starred back and waited again tos ee if he got anything to say and he didn't so I just walked passed, and another one of those kids was sitting alone at a bench talking on the cell phone away form the rest said whats up to me. What I am wondering if I should have had the excuse to get phsyical at that point that the kid stared at me?

If you are genuinely asking that question- you need to invest in some psychiatric help.

Take my advice and the rest of your life will be happier.