In my opinion, martial arts became obsolete with the invention of the gun.

The proper usage of firearms (rifle, pistol, shotgun) is a martial art.

Do you always carry your gun with you? If so, have you trained enough so that you can draw, aim and fire quickly from a concealed carry position? Do you even know how to conceal carry your gun? Do you even know how to draw, aim, and fire properly? How many rounds of ammo have you expended practicing? How many hours have you spent doing dry fire drills?

antagonist,
If you carry out your line of reasoning, then obviously oil painting became obsolete with the invention of spray paint. Cars became obsolete when planes were invented. Hell planes became obsolete when rockets were invented. None of which is true by the way, or we would have launched all stupid people into outerspace by now!

Hmmmm. Does anyone have an opinion on this matter?

Meynard's right on. Good training if you carry a gun is really important. Unfortunately, a lot of people including cops are probably carrying guns without the right kind of training or regular practice.

The proper use of a firearm:

aim ("point") the weapon

squeeze ("pull") the trigger

All of that is very fundamental.

Now here's the difficult part:
A trip to the Big House and a long-term, close relationship with some guy (not sumguye) name Bubba. Gun has an entirely new meaning there and Bubba's will tear your insides out.

Have a wonderful day and be careful where you point 'that' gun. You may just shoot your own eye out.

"Safety First!"

Irritated,if you carry out your line of reasoning we would see people riding to work in model-Ts & taking international flights in a zepplin.

Antagonist,
There's another stupid thing to say! I never presented a line of reasoning for you to digress with. Obviously you need to book a shuttle flight for yourself.

Hey All,
Firearms can be used in a variety of ways; for instance: (1) hunting for food (example: deer hunting); (2) shooting for sport (example: target practice); (3) national defense (example: training in a U.S. Marine Reserve infantry unit); (4) defense of others (example: sheriff's deputies getting an armed criminal to surrender); (5) self defense (example: deterring a group of would-be muggers). I've experienced three of these examples.
There's more to PROPER firearms usage than aim & squeeze; just ask a U.S. Marine scout sniper (or an NRA firearms safety instructor if you're short on sniper friends). Or track down an old Marine Reservist who served at the U.S. Armed Forces Reserve Center in Los Alamitos, California -- he once held the world's record in fast draw with accuracy (he may still hold the record). Some martial artists are accomplished marksmen & trainers of accomplished marksmen. Meynard's correct when he says that firearms usage is a martial art.
Sun Lu Tang told prospective students who wanted to learn to fight to get a gun. He lived in a time when Chinese wanted to force ARMED foreigners out of their country. These rebellions were called "BOXER" rebellions for good reason: many poorly armed with bladed weapons or no weapons at all (other than their own bodies) went up against Japanese, German, & U.S. troops armed with rapid-fire rifles, pistols, gattling guns, cannon, as well as bayonet, sword & knife. An aware instructor would naturally not want his students to crash course a system of boxing & then run into concentrated, interlocking firearms & cannon fire without benefit of same! In this day & age learning firearms use is part of a well-rounded martial training (even if you don't personally carry a firearm, you may come across one & put it to good use someday).
Be wary of concealed carry! Bubba may become your "roomate." Check local rules & law-enforcement practices (carry at your own risk or don't carry at your own risk). Un-concealed carry can put others (& yourself if you're intelligent) on their best behavior (AND YOU'RE LESS LIKELY TO END UP ALONGSIDE OL' BUBBA). Either way there are many rules governing firearms carry (i.e.: near schools, at certain public gatherings) -- I'm not saying that such rules are righteous, I'm just saying that they exist in some places & law-enforcement types vary greatly regardless of law or rules (it's a very deep subject).
A firearm is but a tool -- in the hands of a wise man or a fool (just as a kitchen knife, a bow & arrow, a crow bar, a bomb, etc.). Misuse of such a tool may result in death, injury, &/or property damage. Proper use can help protect, help feed, &/or can bring hours of enjoyment. Don't be anti-firearm or it will eventually lead to ownership being criminal -- then we'll be like the unarmed or poorly-armed boxers against well- armed criminals/oppressors.
Also note: some with knives or just bare hands can get-the-drop on one armed with a firearm -- and vice-versa (& sometimes both antagonist & victim end up harmed or dead). Consider this (if you will). Also consider that U.S. Marine scout snipers (among the ones trained the most in firearms usage) get more hand-to-hand training than most all other U.S. Marines. {:o)

All the great martial arts used and created weapons that were equal or greater to their government's military. When will it be time for modern martial artists to do the same? Firearms should be standard like the staff and the sword. It is not the martial art that is absolete but the weapons we train to use. Our traditional weapons improve out training but thats about it. The way things are going, we are in for another Boxer Rebellion. And man let me tell you, if masters back then took out 12 or 30 soldiers before they died, what the hell are so called "masters" today going to do? Somewhere in history martial artists stop being martial.

Infinity Palm,
You wouldn't be related to Internal Struggle would you?

Obviously he is. I.S. had a preoccupation with the Boxer Rebellion while failing completely to comprehend the event.

That said, there are effective, well-developed Gun-related 'martial arts', they're called handgunning and rifleman skills. To learn them, you join the Army.

Boxer Rebellion got its name from the many naive practitioners who through sleight of hand (of their handlers) were decieved by the few martial artists who used blanks (from guns) while the practitiner used purported special daoist incantations with special hand mudras to show how great martial arts were. In short many from the peasantry were fooled by this deception and the default Boxer (I ho quan) name stood.

Weapons are reality. You work with them to supplement close quarters combat and/or special ops since you need to be resourceful. The romantic version is just that.

stan - once upon a time in china part II (jet lee) is not a historical reference to draw upon when making arguments on the boxer rebellion. The boxer rebellion was participated in by secret societies, who would have had martial arts training in hand to hand and training with dadao or pesant sword, rakes, staffs etc. Local malitia also joined in these guys would have been trained in the use of spears, swords and bows and in some cases rifles. Certain army units also participated one in particular where sichuan natives (muslims) who were trained in using both gun and sword they were also a well disciplined unit. Some martial arts masters also got involved, as they would of possibly been in local malitia's or working security etc and may of got caught up in the struggle. the peasents or common chinese were fooled but it was by their own army and government who initially backed them then descided against it, leaving a large but ill equipt and undiciplined force as well as those chinese people still living the the areas were the uprising took hold to be massacred.

The foreign mercenaries that raised military units under government sanction in China rarely complained about the quality of the Chinese as soldiers. It was their lack of modern equipment and poor discipline that was the problem when dealing with anyone but brigands.

The primary problem the Chinese forces faced was attempting to fight a coalition of eight nations fielding modern armies with weapons and tactics from the feudal age.

Hmm, kinda like Iraq.

In many respects, a somewhat similar situation in the case of the underdog versus the premier military force in the world. But I personally believe that modern technology and communications coupled with terrorism begin to even the playing field to some extent. If you fail to pound a civilization into complete submission and disarm them, then you alot them an opportunity to uprise that they might not normally have. If you are only winning the hearts and minds of half of the population, you will not win the war. If you fail to exterminate those opposed to you, you lose the war. If you cannot put a stop to the insurgency, you lose the war. If you have an unwillingness to get draconian on your enemy, you have no business conducting a war. If you do not have clear objectives, or bullshit objectives (ie. standup a democratic government), you will lose the war. If you are having difficulty identifying who your enemy is, the war is going to prove ridiculous. If your bedfellow in war is the very people who despise your own country, you might have some challenges. If you go to war to bring the evildoers to justice, you might be a red neck. If you get joe snuffy to break out the collars and leashes and use these on your prisoners of war, whilst taking digital pictures of them, then you allow these to get to the general public and the media around the world, you will fail to win the hearts and minds of anyone. If those in charge are not held accountable for the actions of our military and this war, then you got problems. When a nation stops questioning and being critical of its government, then we stop being a so-called democracy. Instead, we become the antithesis of the very thing we are supposedly fighting for.

"What good fortune for those in power that the people do not think."
--Adolf Hitler

"Through clever and constant application of propaganda people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way around, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise."
--Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, 1923

"It also gives us a very special, secret pleasure to see how unaware the people around us are of what is really happening to them. "
Adolf Hitler"

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."

-- Joseph Goebbels, German Minister of Propaganda, 1933-1945

"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything."
--Josef Stalin

"To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things they misname empire; and where they make a desert, they call it peace."
-- Tacitus

"One of the penalities for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."

- Plato

Very thoughtful, but what the hell, it's still fun to blow things up.

Yes, there is a kind of catharsis involved in shooting a weapon or, as you say, blow[ing] things up. It can be perceived as nothing more than a way to blow off some steam, but the very essence of it points to survivability. I believe we need to be careful with this cliche approach to viewing the role of the soldier. If we do not give him a higher purpose to meeting his objective, then we run the risk of delving into the virtual territory of sociopathic behavior. I understand the tongue-in-cheek statement, but the last guy I would want next to me in the line of fire is the guy who adopts a kind of undisciplined juvenile approach to fighting. I gather from this board that there truly is an art to martial arts, and it's not just an exercise in mindless violence.

ehem- done correctly, mindless violence is an art.