• Archive through June 17, 2003 June 17 - 08:07 am [20]

I know very little about hsing-i compared to Tim, Sam or Liang; but will say that there are different theories on how and why to stamp as well as whether or not this is a practise that becomes softer and more subtle with practise or remains forcefull.

I would suggest following whatever advice you get in person from a hsing-i expert and, that even if you do, remember that it is easy to injure the foot and/or joints by stamping too forcefully or if you don't pay attention to effecient body mechanics.

The surface you use while practising can also have a negative effect -- for example when I learned the fundamentals of Liang's hsing-i I was practising on concrete as opposed to a springy wood floor or grass-cushioned earth and my poor stamping led to many months of plantar's fascitis (sp?) which is a fancy medical name for "the bottom of my foot hurts like hell".

It would be a mistake to evaluate foot methods (Bu Fa) without also evaluating body methods(Shen Fa). The two are interlinked (united) in all Xing Yi actions. Watching videos is not a very effective way to discover or find out the mechanics which generate forces. Appearances and and the underlying reality are often not as obvious as you might believe.

The Three 'Steps' or Levels of Gong fu (achievement) in Hebei Xing Yi; Ming Jing (Obvious Energy), An Jing (Concealed Energy), and Hua Jing (Transfroming Energy) do not usually have clearly defined boundaries. A competent teacher will make allowances for age, martial background, natural abilities and preferences etc.

There may not be much discussion about some individual's expertise or lack thereof, however there does appear to be a large variation in the interpretation (translating) of that expertise.

The part about clearly defined boundaries, was specifically in relation to actual practise rather than worded transmission.

My original question was "why some schools of xingyi stamp with their front foot when making for example a punch - step (punch lands as the front foot lands), while others stamp with their back foot", a lot of people responded with stating that xingyi doesn't stamp at all. My referring to Sun Lu Tang and Liang Shou You, was solely to show that (in whatever stage) respected xingyi practitioners do stamp or teach to stamp. I hope there's not to much room for intepretation here...

Depends on what you consider to be at the heart or source of Xing Yi in all aspects; solo practice, two person rehearsed sparring, free sparring and combat (fists and weapons).

Is it the physical manifestation of the five actions (Splitting, Smashing, Drilling, Pounding, Crossing) in one, the eight 'characters', nine 'songs', seven key points etc. These principles or rules allow for different combinations and permutations which may result in forms, differing in external appearance in varying degrees, but still retaining the same essential lifeblood and essence.

Or is it to be found through the mechanical imitation of outstanding individuals of the past and present, through a form of slavish servitude.

Adherance to the former means that if the stamping (or whatever) is in the 'spirit of the rules', then by all means (doesn't mean to say it isn't superfluous though)... to the latter, well if X didn't or Y did (some sort of proxy voting system)....

Chris, I understand your pointe and appreciate your commentary, my question was meant pretty superfluous though. I know very little about xingyi, but i know stamping or shouting or jumping or whatever is not at the heart or source of Xing Yi. I wasn't looking for an answer on what is the true essence of xingyi, i just wanted to know why respected teachers like Tim say there's no stamping ("The theory is stamping the ground diverts energy into the ground and away from the opponent") while other respected teachers do (see quote). I'me just interested in some aspect the 'physical manifestation' of this art.

Max, i'm not trying to illustrate the essence of Xing Yi, don't think anyone can or has, certainly not through words or pictures, but occassionally you can get glimpses of it while actually doing it.

The point i'm trying to make, without trying to ram it down your throat (hence the different approaches in each post), is that with your level of experience, you are in no position to be able to judge, what a satisfactory answer is. Yes, it is a superficial question and you'll only comprehend a superficial answer. If you want to understand why the 'controversy' exists, then you are going to have to dig deeper, into both the art and yourself, not just scratch around the surface. Might discover alot of other stuff along the way.

A teacher, senior students, books, videos etc can be a guide to learning, but learning and understanding itself are achieved through doing. Getting these ideas across face to face is difficult enough, let alone on the net, without appearing to pontificate or put down.

After practising a movement say 30,000 to 40,000 times (100 times a day over a year min standard), your opinion will still be worth squat, but at least should have skills to begin to navigate through this mess.

anyone else who want's to share his / her views on this topic?

Hi,
Well, conveniently enough, this subject came into view a few weeks ago in class. Using crushing as an example, I had been practicing by stepping ,rooting and then punching and it was explained to me by my instructor that instead of using that method, punching in coordination with the movement of the steps and body and as the punch ends the weight drops in coordination with the back foot touching the ground (like in half stepping)which can create a stamping effect. This creates a double punch of sorts, the first being in the body weight moving with the punch and a second punch with short power as the weight drops and the foot comes to the ground at the completion of the technique. Seems very useful and I've gotten good results trying this punching and dropping method in rou shou and sparring. As to the volume of the stamp, I was told that the stamp does not have to be forceful and loud, he made little noise when he did it. I have found that at least for now, making some noise while doing it sort of helps me integrate it in a definite manner into my training, after I get the hang of it, then I'll try it quieter and more subtly.

Yes, I also remember a teaching saying that Xingyi has this Fa Li/Fa Jing from the back leg in half step. So both front stomps and back stomps make sense (at least at a beginning level).