Hi folks,

I'm a Wing Tsun practitioner with a passing familiarity with the neijia (a few seminars, a little silk-reeling, and the occasional friendly work-out partner). I'm not looking to start (another) internal/external netwar, but I would like to hear the xing yi perspective on a controversy which I understand is shared by both of our arts- 50/50 vs. 0/100 weight distribution.

I've heard a multitude of both conditioning and tactical reasons for various weight distributions within Wing Chun, and would very much like to hear the basic gist of the controversy in Xing Yi.

FWIW- my take on the main points of the argument(as a 0/100 guy)

0/100
- harder to do and learn to evolve power from, hence better conditioning
-occurs in in-fighting where the unweighted leg is active if only by pressing the opponent's legs, and is superfluous/silly outside of leg contact range
-'impossible to move in' per the 50/50 purists
-makes the front leg *much* less vulnerable to attack

50/50
-easier to move in/ more natural
-allows backward adjustment more freely

Thoughts?

Y'all manage to come up with other points of contention?

TIA,

Andrew

Hi Andrew,
Good question. Let's look at it this way. Can I kick you if I keep a 50/50 weight distribution? Can I lift you over my shoulders if I stand on one foot? Which weight distribution is better? It's like asking if fins are better than hiking boots, it depends on whether you're going swimming or mountain climbing.

Fighting & walking are the same conceptually regarding weight distribution: sometimes all of your weight is on one foot -- often leaning, sometimes ballanced; and at other moments your weight is say 10/90, 20/80, 30/70, 50/50, 60/40, etc. I doubt many (good) fighters stand still (in an unwavering "stance" in the midst of combat. Moving to avoid an opponent's force & to bring your own force to bear upon your opponent generally requires SHIFTING of weight.

P.S.: Here's a simple weight-shifting drill you might like (it's one of my favorites) -- it uses both 50/50 to approximately 0/100 (quickly):
(1) Stand naturally (50/50), both feet, chest, & face facing say north at an opponent.
(2) As opponent strikes say anywhere from your left-shoulder area to your centerline you go into a "cat" stance with your primary weight-bearing foot & face still pointed north, but with your light foot & chest now pointing/facing west -- while simultaneously delivering a countering strike with your right hand (i.e.: a rib shot).
Note that the body mechanics are great -- you get "off line" as your opponent moves into the range of your force generated by the shift (and if your opponent does connect somewhat say near your shoulder, then he just adds to the force of your countering right)! This drill also has many useful variations. You're striking & avoiding force simulaneously -- simple. Have fun! {)

Good dialogue fellas.I usually stay out of this one,because who ever you ask,each will have a different answer,depending on where they are in thier training.You'll get the same thing with stance width and for the same reasons.i've trained with various people in various stages of growth and someone who really understands internal principles will change your stance and posture as you develope.Everyone here had a good point.

Thanks for the replies,

Tim- appealing to sense and reason when discussing martial arts? I'm shocked, shocked I say! Your point is taken- use what you need to, in order to best do the job. This is, IMHO, the advanced take. As much as that's where I would like to be, I think that at my stage of development, compulsive attention to detail is useful, hence my curiosity about the nature of this controversy in an art besides my own.

Mike- the drill you describe is pretty core to my WT practice, though I focus on using the turn (how we describe the weight shift) passively. A mechanical question to you- in performing this shift, to what extent do you use/emphasize/teach/ train the use of the adductor muscles to stabilize this shift (leaving the small stuff around the hip which is the moral equivalent of the rotator cuff relaxed- pectinates/adductor minimus/ some of the gluts). We stress this muscular usage a great deal in my line (WT, not a classic neijia art), though other lines place less emphasis. Is this something y'all use to do this or see as a dangerous limitation?

BTW- this adduction is stone wrong and dangerous, IMHO if it is done by bringing the knee medially out of the line of the hip and ankle, just to head off that issue.

Later,

Andrew

To Andrew,
Heck, I don't know (I don't even understand half of what you just wrote) -- I just do the drill every now & then. The martially-proficient gentleman who introduced me to this drill didn't give us minute details; rather he said something like "I want ya to do this," & then he demonstrated; then we did as we saw. It's just a quick weight shift at close quarters (in case you didn't keep a safe distance).
Note: your chest probably won't be directly "west," [it'll probably end up north-west -- don't be a stickler on this drill as it's just a gross movement; it's not a fine-tuned, subtle work of art like some of the Xing-Yi drills & exercises Tim shows at the Shen Wu studio (you'll most likely have to visit Tim or his instructors for those)]. {)

P.S.: Your line of questioning reminded me of my dad. He told me that you couldn't learn martial arts unless you knew exactly which muscles came into play, what the weight distribution was, etc. What a line of B.S. (Bandini, sacked -- Bandini is or was a fertilizer company)! Knowing all the "academics" of an art won't hurt, but it's not a prerequisite (or even a requisite) for learning TO DO (you can learn to do something without knowing all of the details; ask yourself: "Did I know all of the muscle groups, nerve-firing sequences, angles, speeds, & torques before I threw a baseball well? Did I know all of this STUFF after I learned to throw a baseball well?".

Hi Mike,

What you describe is pretty much one of my bread and butter basics, hence I obsess about it ( even more than the compulsive sorts who populate my line).

I tend to agree with you on relevance of theory to practice on some level- 'just train more' works well and produces good results. There are lots of folks out there who love theory (generally intellectually sloppy rationalization of bad habits) more than more than sweat. Nonetheless, if I'm doing a specific thing wrong (or seeing a specific thing done wrong) in a more complicated application (i.e. hand not leading the foot), I back up and do a simpler drill which corrects my mistake, then return to the original problem. This requires analysis of my mistakes, some of which are biomechanical in nature (as opposed to the many other flavors of error I commit). Some problems won't go away unless specifically addressed.

Anyway, we're drifting afield from the original line of questioning. Hopefully, I can make it down Tim's way at some point to feel what he does, but I've got a few things to take care of first (i.e. an MRI and its outcome).

Later,

Andrew

To Andrew,
Sorry I can't help ya further (as I just don't know the answer -- & I really had trouble understanding the question, or questions). I realize that some great athletes really do know this kind of detailed stuff -- from deep study (&/or help from sports specialists). I hope you find the answer. {)

P.S.: Hope results of MRI are encouraging. I've never had one, but I probably need one. {)