Tim:

I am researching the TST ba forms, can you tell me anything about them?

I was told some of them were taught by Zhang Junfeng and some were created by Hong Yixiang as basic training forms.

do you know which ones were from Zhang Laoshi, and which ones were from Hong Laoshi?

also, I am told that they are bagua forms that have been linearized, is this correct?

I don't know which forms are from which teacher.

Some of the forms are taken from the Gao style Baguazhang straight line forms.

thanks, I appreciate it. Do you know which forms were from the Bagua?

also, do you know anything about Hong Yi Wen?

Only that he passed away relatively early, and that he was supposed to be very powerful.

Hello Tim,

I learned the TSt Xingyi with james McNeil, another student of Xu Hongji. We learned a set of about 24 exercises, most of which were drills of various techniques done in a high horse stance. Tien Gunn. I've heard this also comes from Gao Style Bagua, but in the tape of Luo Dexiu and Tim Cartmell, the Tien Gunn I saw is done on a very extended and low posture, with very ample gestures. I did recognize some of the moves (ie, reverse clamping, direct clamping and so on) but they were done in a very different manner - what is the reason about this? I would be interested in knowing what the purposes are in the two ways of doing it.

Best

José de Freitas

I was told the version With hih horse were taught to Zhang's earlier students and focused on Fah Jin The ones taught by Luo were taught to his later students and focus on structure.

fajing w/o structure?

Jose,
The Tian Gan exercises that Luo demonstrates on his tape are done in the original manner, with long, low stances and extended movements.

Thanks, Tim.
So, who changed the stances? Was it Xu Hongji? Is it a Xingyi specific thing, an adaptation of Bagua power training to Xingyi? I can see how the stances done by Luo are probably better from an overall body conditioning point of view, but I benefitted a lot from the other training, I'd be interested in knowing where it originated and why. I also note that the exercises shown in Robert Smith's Pakua: Chinese Boxing for Fitness and Self Defense are closer to Luo's than Xu's, but they are not entirely the same.
Best

Uhhhh,....huh?

Jose,

I'm not sure if Xu Hongji changed the Tian Gan or if he learned them this way from Hong Yixiang.

In general, Xu's version emphasizes the hand method, Luo's the body method.