Whats more interesting with the lee style tai chi chuan is to look into the flying hands form and then we see flow similarities to the other styles, but no posture names, come to think of it no posture names in the weapons forms either. Most odd when there are posture names for the main form, although they dont really match up to other styles of tai chi chuan.
Not a lot of people know this, the village that the 'lee style' came from was actually garrisoned by a british army regiment called the Wei Hai Regiment and also was policed by real British police called the D contingent, mainly supplied by the met, from 1896--to 1906, and remained under british juristiction for many years. This point is not addressed by Mr Clifford Gibbs aka Chee Soo, as Lee Chan Kam would have been patently aware of this.
Two police officers who had served in Wei Hai from London, Gregory Chatlow and Howard Petty, are known in certain circles to have studied Tai Chi Chuan, and on their return began teaching in London, sometime in the period 1909--1912 or so.
So Tai Chi from Wei Hai was practiced and taught in London before the supposed Lee Chan Kam appeared, and the likelyhood that the true basis for the 'Lee'style rests with two met policemen who had lived and worked in Wei Hai.
Great!!!! the Lee style bashers used to say that Clifford Gibbs aka Chee Soo invented Lee style by combining it with Aikido and Judo and a few Kung Fu movie moves!
Now the latest Bash is that the Lee style bashers are saying that it probably was real tai chi from China but not from Lee Chan Kam but actually from 2 Police Officers who had served in Wei Hai.
Groovy Man !!!
Clifton Gibbs aka Chee Soo: Background
Hey I just read that stuff on the WUKUNG website and it says that Chee Soo was teaching Tai Chi in 1957, when Lee chan Kan died in 1954. Chee Soo in on the record as saying that he vowed not to teach tai chi for 10 years after Lee Chans death. Was Chee Soo making it up as he went along ???
Where does it say 1945 I can't find the reference
Whoops I mean 1954 cheers, hey maybe I was looking for 1945 Lol !!!
This is a very interesting development in bringinga bit of clarity to the fog and the myth that surrounds Mr Gibbs. The is no smoke without fire, and as it would appear the truth will out !.
I suspect that as more knowelege comes to light about Mr Gibbs, only history will be his judge, as a true master martial artist or a true hoaxer who has taken the martial arts world for a ride.
The martial arts society in London, although small at that time 1915--1930's, did have some very interesting individuals who practiced japanese and chinese martial arts, these gentlemen were from a military background, but did teach openly and did have rudimentry clubs, but were rough and ready. Chatlow and Petty are certainly well known figures in the London martial arts world of that time and were known to and instructed the likes of Walter Thompson, Edmund Murray and Daniel Mander. Chee Soo being from London would have been aware of these individuals. A martial arts Master such as Chan Lee, living in London and teaching tai chi would also be aware of the above mentioned.
That is very interesting Mathias Volhard, how on earth did you come by this information? Please tell us more about the Martial Arts Society in London in the 1930's.
It's not likely you'll get a response, this thread is from 2006.
2006... when the shen wu forum was a free for all. No registration required. Those were the days...
All ruined by spam.
Damn you Spam!!!
Shameless plug.... check out the old backissues of Kung Fu Taichi magazine as I believe I still have the only article in english on ground fighting from Xing Yi!
Shameless support... Not only is it the only article in English on Xingyiquan ground fighting, it's very well done.
Gracias! I have an okay teacher ;)
That was a great magazine. I loved the recipes in the back.. I can never find it anywhere...
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This is the only place Google can find the name Mathias Volhard.
There's no ground fighting in xing yi the way it is defined today as ground fighting. Accept it!
If a style has some techniques to get from the ground back to the feet I'm not sure that qualifies.
Having had kids I've realized how instinctive groundfighting is to human. Throw them one item they all want and you'll soon see a precursor to newaza. (small items are better than say a football).
In my daughter's judo class, ground control is taught before throwing - apparently for safety. I wonder if the other reason is because it's just more natural for them.
It's easier in the body than getting bashed on the mat.
Mathias Volhard: The Metropolitan Police Archives at the Met Heritage Centre have no record of Howard Petty or Gregory Chatlow in the Metropolitan Police. Furthermore the title 'D' contingent is reserved for Shandong Chinese police officers, European Officers were designated 'A' contingent.
Your assumptions about the origins of the Lee style and Chan Kam Lee in connection with Churchill's bodyguards would appear to be mistaken.
Mathia Volhard re Lee style T'ai Chi and Weihaiwei:
We also contacted Danny Mander, he has no memory of any Martial Arts club in London, Howard Petty or Gregory Chatlow. He volunteered for the Military Police in 1939 and was trained at the Military Police Training School, Mytchett Camp, Aldershot, Hampshire west of London near Farnborough in 1940, so perhaps it was before his time.