A few years ago, I attended this Shaolin school:
http://www.shaolins.net/

I asked for some advice from Tim and others before I left. Much of the criticisms directed at schools like this were not innaccurate.
My experience was not perfect. But... I would not change a thing. I mostly trained in some Wu-Shu-y 'shaolin' forms. But I also busted my ass in old-school conditioning and trained San Da 4-7 times a week. I got some sparring in, made friends, blah blah blah.

I wanna do it again. I wanna be fair. So I wanna give internal martial arts their shot.

I know that this guy's forms are probably not like Luo de xiu. I wish that he had a boarding school that I could just walk into, and train full time in, 6 days a week, for really cheap. As a compromise, I believe that I can train some San Da and some sub wrasslin while I'm there, while I try to get some benefit out of the program, especially as it comes to Xing Yi and BGZ. I have had a romantic crush on BGZ for years, but have never found a teacher that I really trusted.
So, to anyone that has trained over-seas, or full time, or somewhat similar experiences...
check out the web-page:
http://www.wudanggongfu.com/kungfu/master.htm

and then check out videos of his forms etc:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9054923197515243753&q=wudanggongfu

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4182307845018536130&q=wudang&pl=true

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?&ei=UTF-8&gid=g_9a2fbc79307ab2b2733cdc406015bf a6.9a2fbc79307ab2b2733cdc406015bfa6&b=10&vid=9a2fbc79307ab2b2733cdc406015bfa6.57 0726&rurl=video.yahoo.com&vdone=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.yahoo.com%2Fvideo%2Fgroup%3Fe i%3DUTF-8%26gid%3Dg_9a2fbc79307ab2b2733cdc406015bfa6.9a2fbc79307ab2b2733cdc40601 5bfa6%26b%3D11

The question is this: Will it be worth my while? Will I learn some of the essence of traditional internal martial arts? I know about the history/ the gov't/ the authenticity. I've heard all that before about Shao Lin and about mainland TaiJi etc. But have a look? Is there enough there, so that someone who has competed in San Da, Judo and Submission Wrestling will gain new insights by studying under this man in this environment?

I'd love to hear some opinions.

Thanks guys.

Jason-

I never heard of this Tai Chi lineage before. All popular Tai Chi today comes through the Chen family style. Even the style that is popularly called the "Wudang" style is an offshoot of the Wu style which comes through the Yang style. This Wudang tai chi style claims to be from a lineage directly from Zhang San Fei.

A lot of the things I've begun to learn in IMA is very esoteric. Being in an immerssive (sp?) program like this one may help you, but it can also turn you off. You may learn some of the essence of IMA by doing things totally unrelated to training like taking a Chinese Calligraphy or Chinese language classes at a local college. Some of the good IMA teachers teach only once every week or two weeks. The rest you practice on your own in your own time.

I've been to karate boot camps where they train you 100% for 4 days straight. I think Judo and Sanda have things that are similar. You can definitely gain level in karate this way...and very quickly. I'm not sure about IMA though...

i think you can

I had friends at the Shaolin school that studied Ba Ji under someone I considered to be very legit.
Their abilities in Ba Ji and Xing Yi flew threw the roof after a few months of 15-25 hrs a week.

Jason,

You'll learn forms.

Wushu forms at that. Those do not even look like traditional forms bro!
BTW very few people actually teaching traditional Baji here in the states. They do not look like one of them! If you want to learn good Baji I can put you in touch with some people.
Cheers
Jake

I quit learning Ba Ji while I was in China, because i found it boring.

I had also never heard of it before, in the states, ever.

I think that I would appreciate it a lot more now, but I'd rather do what i do now in the states than chase some Ba Ji.

TIM:
So you think that he's just some wu-shu forms type guy and not that legit?
I think I know what you mean...

I saw some highlights from Luo De Xiu's clever hands video or some seminars. I wish that I could study with him 5 times a day 6 days a week, for only 600-800 USD a month for a few months. But I think that this is not possible...

Why not train with Tim, or one of his students?
Jake

Jason is always welcome.

I don't have one of those awesome outfits though.

can one train in LA full time for $800 USD a month (like 18-28 hrs a week) no working, room/board/tution/food included?

Quality vs. quantity bro.

I would stay as far away from anyone that markets themselves like this... I never see any Chinese people wearing those robes at the tournaments. I have actually noticed they frown on it... seems a bit silly.

Save your money... or spend it at Tim's.

EVERYONE frowns on those jammies!

there is something to be said for quantity though.

While I agree that quality is first, you can handle more quantity of quality than you recognize.

I wish that I had had more than 90 minutes a day 4-5 days a week for my San Da Training. I would have learned even more.

Good teachers. good program, and lots of time without distractions, i think that people can handle a whole lot.

Olympic weightlifters tend to train 1-3 times a day, andmostly in the same 4-5 lifts. Yet they get stronger, andmore powerful.
Conventional gym rat wisdom says that you can't do the same lifts or work the same muscles more than 2-3times a week, yet i have personally increased my deadlift and snatch by more than 13%in 4weeks by following just such a program of 9 workouts a week built around 40-70% snatching and various closely related assistance lifts.

How many people are Olympic level athletes though? A dose of reality is needed here I think.

i am just saying that judiciously applied, one can train more often than what many people think.

in the strength/power community this is a popular concept, from the Bulgarian OL style of training to Pavel's 'Grease the Groove'.

You must know what you are doing in order to devise a safe and effective training program. While no expert in any CIMA, I have paid my dues when it comes to motor learning and the body's adaptations to stressors.

i am just saying that judiciously applied, one can train more often than what many people think.

in the strength/power community this is a popular concept, from the Bulgarian OL style of training to Pavel's 'Grease the Groove'.

You must know what you are doing in order to devise a safe and effective training program. While no expert in any CIMA, I have paid my dues when it comes to motor learning and the body's adaptations to stressors.

'Grease the groove' is a popular euhamism in San Francisco. Was Pavel light in the loafers?

I don't think Pavel Tsatsouline would fit in in San Francisco.

The point Jason is trying to make is that it is possible to train more often if done correctly.

The 'grease the groove' concept, as well as lifting more than once a day are possible when exercises are not carried to failure.

The upside, especially if skill development is an issue as well as attribute development, is that you get to practice more often.

thank you Tim.

Hi Jason,

You are in Virgina, right?
Bok Nam Park teaches Baguazhang in Richmond. Why not just sign up at his school and attend every class he offers?

uh...

i was a student of one of his instructors.
It was not what I was looking for.

uh...

i was a student of one of his instructors.
It was not what I was looking for.

Okay, cool. I looked at the website and a couple of videos. The forms look a little wushu-ey, but that doesn't necessarily mean the instructor doesn't have real internal skills. If you like living in boarding school type kung fu academies in China then you will probably like it

If you are working with a particular amount of money I am sure Tim could hook you up with a cheap hotel and private lessons. It would just end up meaning you could stay a little less time in California then you could in China

Thanks,
Richard S.

Jason. I have found Parks books and videos both interesting and of value. Would you mind explaining if you found a problem with his system, or the instructor, or what it was you wanted that wasn't there?

I agree about the books- I thought that his systematic approach, of basic fundamentals, rather than forms etc, was a great breath of fresh air.
And his 'disciple' did teach in this fashion.
What wasn't really happening, was real drilling of highly applicable basics, AND ESPECIALLY non-cooperative sparring. A total lack of understanding of grappling and throwing and ground-fighting was also a big minus. There was also a lack of well-rounded development. It was clear that almost all of the practitioners associated with the school were in poor shape, and had limited training in any other martial arts. That whole 'wing chun/karate/magic palm attack is more deadly than wrestling or muay thai' feeling. This to me is a giant red flag.

Jason: A classmate of mine trained with a Bagua/Shuaijiao group in Tianjin, China. He trained in it for 8 years. It's a combination of Bagua and wrestling. They train every morning and night with practices on your own in the middle of the day. It sounds a bit no non-sense....e.g. questions will be answered with a demonstration and you ending up on the floor.

It sounds like he paid around $500 a month to the teachers while he was there. It could be because he already established a relationship with them. I can get more info for you if you are interested.

Tianjin on the coast?