Questions on how Tim was taught Xing Yi

Tim's Discussion Board: Xing Yi Quan: Questions on how Tim was taught Xing Yi

   By Jerry on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 01:18 pm: Edit Post

One more try:
I started to make this a private message to you, Marc, but then I decided there was no reason not to say it out in the open. I think I speak for a lot of people. If anyone disagrees with what I have to say, they can say so.

Listen, Marc,

I want you to know I don't hate you, and I don't think anyone on the board hates you. We don't even know you. I personally am very angry with you for up something that's valuable to me, and I'm sure many others feel the same way. And you certainly haven't earned anyone's respect.

I was willing, still would be willing, to be friendly to you. I was trying to help you out by explaining some of the things you don't understand, but now I have the impression that you don't even want to understand, so I'm disgusted, and I don't feel like like discussing or arguing with you.

I don't know if you realize it or not, so I want to spell this out: what you're doing on this board comes across as hostile, destructive, irresponsible.
This is a great board, and you're it up for all of us. It appears as if you're doing it deliberately; you don't seem to have any other purpose in mind. You just want attention, even negative attention. Okay, so can't you go show your ass in some OTHER public place?

Even Tim had to discipline for your extreme rudeness, but you're ALWAYS rude. You show no respect for the people on the board, or their teachers, or the arts; you deliberately insult people just to get attention; you have to stick your oar into every single goddamn discussion, and when you do you speak from a place of ignorance. You're often wildly off topic.

I said before that you're like a stray dog. You're like a puppy dog, you're kind of cute sometimes, but apparently you've been abused, and you don't necessarily belong in our clubhouse where we're trying to have a good time or a serious discussion. It's like this puppy dog that comes in off the street, jumping up on everybody, yapping, pissing everywhere, and sometimes snarling and trying to bite.
The friendly puppy dog part is why people don't hate you, or dislike you as much as they probably should.
However, the yapping and snarling and pissing everywhere is not making you friends.

This board is a beautiful thing, a valuable resource. Some of us are trying to have serious discussions here, or just have a pleasant time.

This is what I ask of you, and others have as well: show respect at all times, to Tim, to the internal arts, to the other people on the board. (The same thing they ask in any martial arts school). Not everyone does that, but then not everyone posts 20 times a day. Anyway, I'M
asking YOU, personally, as a friend. It seems like a fair request.

Don't be sarcastic, you don't do it well. Don't be rude or insulting. If you have a question, make it a good one, and really try to understand the answer. And for god's sake, don't put your goddamn stamp on every single thread. Try to say something constructive, or interesting, or funny, or ask a good question, when you have the chance. When you have nothing to say, say nothing!

You know, you've attacked me several times for being educated, for knowing something, for using big words. Hey, man, that's who I am. You suggested that no one will take me seriously. So far, that doesn't seem to be the case, but anyway it's not your problem.

If you want to talk about posture, or whatever, I'll be glad to discuss it with you, and it doesn't matter who's right. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But if you want to have that kind of discussion, you have to behave like a mensch (civilized human being).

As for your many-times repeated question about why the great internal artists aren't dominating the extreme martial sports, I don't know. Maybe they are and you are too blind to recognize it. Maybe they don't want to. If anyone has the answer to this question, please give it to Marc so we can all get some peace.

I asked you before and you didn't answer: if you think internal martial arts are all crap, why are you obsessing on them?

I think the real answer to your question is, first, like I told you, but it's too boring so you don't want to hear it, internal arts are not necessarily better or worse than any others for fighting. It's what you do with it, not what lineage you study.

Secondly, internal arts is just a different approach that emphasizes internal development (and we could talk forever about what that means); relaxed whole body power and good shen fa; and a strategic doctrine of not opposing force with force, but seeking a position of advantage. It's a different approach, a different emphasis, it appeals to some people.
It has some uses outside of combat, and that's what interests many people. If you're interested, great, study something. If not, fine, but why do you have to hang around here yapping at us?

That's all I have to say.


   By marc daoust on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 10:17 pm: Edit Post

wow where to begin?
i not sure my words are insulting or challenging?
and you guys don't like to be challenge.
you can just click on the arrow and skip it all
if you're not happy,no one is forced to read anything of mine!and you are not required to reply,but you do.
i'm all about talking martial arts,but you guys
go on and on about some chinese dude somewhere
back in the day.and all those guys traveled all over china to challenge any willing fighters.
that's how they got so "legendary",right?
i'm just curious why now none go around the world
to do the same,that would be a even greater
accomplishment.right?
one more thing i'm curious about,
you keep saying that IMA are as good as EMA,
and that they train as hard physically than
external.so why do you think they can train
further into their old age than EMA?
and how can one do any EMA without any internal principles?everything has an internal side!


   By Jerry on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 01:02 pm: Edit Post

Well, Marc,

I thought a little more about it, and the thing is, it's not so much the low quality of your posts that's the problem, it's the sheer quantity of them.
Some other people do also post without respect, or without understanding what they're talking about, but you just never shut up. You have to piss on every thread. Week after week, month after month, half the posts on every thread are from you, and few if any of them have any redeeming value.

You've taught me some wonderful lessons in patience and tolerance, and also the meaning of a word: "trolling". I never understood that term before, because I never saw much of it. You probably don't even realize you're doing it. What it means is, you write something that's in some way objectionable, so someone will answer you, so you have an excuse to write again.

Yeah, I can skip over your posts, and mostly I do, but it's like trying to watch the ballet with some idiot rowdy drunks in the row in front of you. You can ignore them, or try to, but it does kind of ruin the experience.

Regarding IMA vs EMA if there is such a distinction, first, yes, I'm the one who says, well not exactly what you said, that EMA and EMA are equally good, but I do say something similar to that: that neither one is necessarily better or worse when it comes to fighting.

I don't think I'm the one who's been saying that internal artists train hard, but I sort of agree with that. People who want to fight certainly must train for strength, endurance and so on; also people who want to be good in any athletic pursuit, or just people like me who want to be strong and agile, especially as we get older.
On the other hand, you could just do taiji or qigong forms, yoga or whatever like that, and that also is good for maintaining health and mobility, just not on the same level.

That's one of the things you do that keeps you so confused, you don't follow who says what, you lump everyone together in one giant straw man.

I'll try to answer some of your questions in the next post because, although not well formulated, they touch on some interesting points.


   By Jerry on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 01:39 pm: Edit Post

Legendary Fighters

Legendary fighters are legendary, by definition. Expecting real people today to live up to what legends did in legend is unrealistic. A more realistic basis for comparison would be great sports stars: Muhammad Ali, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan. Those guys are real.

There are some people that are better than everybody else, and if you bring them into your neighborhood gym, it's going to be as if they had magical powers, but they don't, it's just highly developed talent and skill.

Today if you want to show your fighting ability, you can't go around China picking fights, what you have to do is pick a martial sport and compete in it. Then you have to do what the rules of that sport call for, so even if you're a taiji player, when you go into kickboxing you're going to do what other kickboxers do, hopefully just a little better, and you'll look like a kickboxer. You probably won't have time to practice the long form 3 times a day either.


Why don't internal artists dominate martial sports? You could make a good case that they do, actually, since many people would say that Brazilian jiujitsu is an internal art, and bjj stylists are rather dominant in some of the extreme fighting sports.

Why don't CMA stylists dominate these sports? Well, they do dominate the Chinese san da/san shou competitions. One reason, probably, that you don't see CMA fighters in the octagon is that the Chinese arts don't go in for groundfighting.
Chinese guys didn't like to wrestle on the battlefield; somebody might walk by and stick a knife in you. I realize there are kickboxers and other striking artists in there, though.

But you know, if you're a guy from China who's been doing taiji all his life, and especially if you're over 30, when you come to the US maybe you could go into extreme fighting or boxing or something, but you get your brains beat in and may not make any money. Or, you can open a school and teach taiji and qigong, and guaranteed, you can get students. Difficult choice. Duh.


btw, Marc, you haven't explained to us why YOU aren't in the octagon (you also still haven't answered why you're so fascinated with stuff you think is crap), but I'll tell you why I'M not doing UFC or anything like that (aside from being too old, and not all that athletically talented to start with):

I DON'T WANT TO! I have great respect for the athleticism and courage of those guys, but I think they must be nuts. I don't enjoy hurting people, and I certainly wouldn't like to get beat up like that myself. Only a few people want to fight in extreme sports, only a relatively few people want to be internal artists, and if there's hardly anybody in both categories, it's not surprising.

How come you can train internal arts after you get too old for violent fighting? Well, you can undoubtedly do it with external arts too, or weightlifting, running, other sports. People get much over 30, they're not that competetive, on a high level, with younger people in any sport, and especially sports where you get beat up like football or boxing. If you cut out the contact and focus on the training, then you can participate in lots of different sports.
Lots of guys do kickboxing or whatever like that in their youth, and later on look for something less violent. Tim won full-contact san shou tournaments in Taiwan in his twenties, and now he still comptes, but in jiujitsu. It just make sense to switch to an internal art when you get older and tired of being beat up.

Marc, I think it's interesting that you apparently think I've used force on you somehow (even though, in your own words, it's only words). I just keep confronting you with facts, truth and logic. I understand you're not used to that.


   By marc daoust on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 11:41 pm: Edit Post

dear jerry,
in the last post i did not attacked you in anyway.
but you had to start your post with a little
beat on marc action!it's fine i can take it.
the reason why i post on all threads,is
"why not?"
i would really like to discuss some real MA stuff,
but i'm always replying to your mean mental
attacks.

you know what?i'll do my best to not insult or ridicule anything or anyone.
but if you want to talk martial arts lets do it.
but you need to keep an open mind too.
i might be younger than you but i do know some
stuff about MA.
and i'm sure i can learn something from you too!
why i'm not in UFC?
it takes a lot of push and connections.
i do have 4 MMA fights,but my last coach was a flake and left me hanging.that is why i moved to oregon to train with team quest.they have the connections and much better training.
keep watching you'll see me!


   By marc daoust on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 11:42 pm: Edit Post

then you'll be like;
i used to argue with him!


   By Fatboy (Unregistered Guest) on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 03:10 am: Edit Post

OK Marc
Some questions on MAs

Marc how do you escape the full guard from a 30 stone Sumo guy?

Does a MAs get beat or allows himself to lose... i.e. the mental game

Are their any professional cheats in UFC, in Football you can get away with the "professional foul" if your blind sided on the referee


   By Tim on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 03:19 pm: Edit Post

I can help with the first question (well, the guard was the other way around).

http://www.fightclubvideos.com/video44.html


   By Fatboy (Unregistered Guest) on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 03:52 pm: Edit Post

Oh, yes memory if failing me in my old age, I've seen that, but forgot about it

Bloody Marvellous technique!!!


   By marc daoust on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 08:21 pm: Edit Post

thanks Tim!
that's a good point.
fat boy you said escape full guard?
it's not something you escape,it's something you let go and stand up!if you want to!
but if you have the best of it,you keep going.
(like royce)
30 stone sumo guy???
i'm not really sure what that means?
do you mean "30 stoned sumo guys"?
because if they're stoned, they will not be looking for me ,but for the buffet!!!
sometime it's easier to get a bigger guy off you,
because when you move your hips and dump their weight off it takes longer to bring it back!

ps. you know what really sucks in guard?
is a strong guy that knows how to posture,really jerky/explosive and can defend most attacks!
he's the guy you should sweep or put a GI on!!!


   By darby (Unregistered Guest) on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 12:39 am: Edit Post

marc 1 stone = 14 pounds 30 =420 pounds
fyi


   By marc daoust on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 12:54 am: Edit Post

how many Kg is that?
i'm used to metric system.


   By Taiwan 69-73 (Unregistered Guest) on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 01:34 am: Edit Post

Marc,

A Kg is 2.2 pounds.


   By marc daoust on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 01:52 am: Edit Post

i was kidding!
but i really didn't know what a stone was.
never heard of it.
but thank to you guys i know now!


   By Taiwan 69-73 (Unregistered Guest) on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 02:14 am: Edit Post

It's a common measure of weight in some countries like the British Isles. Sorry but I thought you were serious.


   By marc daoust on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 06:57 pm: Edit Post

you know what is crazy in this country or any other?
is that we measure in feet,stones and hands!
why did we even bother inventing math?


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