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From here

http://www.wle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2508&sid=bb50e6d4efbd1280601118e51270bd 8f

''So one person will be role-playing a "classical mma fighter?" Or is there anyone there that will have knowledge/skill in the actual techniques?"

The answer is a little bit of both. I have a background that enables me to understand and efficiently use the majority of mma techniques. I do train with jujitsu and judo players and have learned the basics/intermediate of japanese and brazilian ground fighting. I also am very well versed with bagua, hsing i, and taichi ground work. I will instruct the students in the basics of the "mma move" and then allow them to work on it in pairs as well as against me. I do not promise anyone anything other than that they will walk away knowing how to train to be able to use hsing i in a fight or for health. ''



Kelly now your basic/intermediate at BJJ , that must be at least blue belt , not to mention well versed in Bagua, Hsing-i and Tai chi ground work.


WOW !!

there will be a video for sale for $20.

come down to Tim's and lets see if you can take the punches i throw.

actually kelly you can come on down to my gym in long beach.

the audience would be smaller but the satisfaction will be that much greater.

I never said I have any belt in Brazilian or Japanese Jujitsu. All I said is that I roll with them frequently and have picked up a bit. I also wrestled in high school so I am not completely ignorant of the ground game. I, by no means, have any belt or ranking in those systems. I boxed down in Mexico and a bit up here. All of that gave me a very basic understanding of these systems. My small understanding of the internal arts gave me a bit of insight into them as well. I have never stated anything other than that.

As for your challenge, who knows maybe someday I'll come down and have a friendly sparring match.

Jason, I understand what you are saying. I can see your point of view. All I can say is different backgrounds, haha. Good trainings.

"http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=TL05Es8LVAQ

please watch at least this entire video. it will help."

Thanks for the video link Jason. I especially like the chess metaphor.

Best,
Ian

that link has been on here before and I have responded to it before.

"a beggars mentality is that he will get down and wipe the floor for you but in reverse will expect you to do the same. a warriors mentality is one in which he will bow to no one and expects no one to bow to him." i like that, made me reflect on myself for a moment.

very articulate guy for an mma fighter...lol.

kelly what you said was you were basic/intermediate in japanese brazilian ju jitsu and well versed in bagua tai chi and hsing i ground work.

Just in case you forgot

"I do train with jujitsu and judo players and have learned the basics/intermediate of japanese and brazilian ground fighting."

There is currently a jujitsu/muay thai coach/fighter that trains with us down at master lu's and we commonly exchange techniques. I also roll with a judo player on a weekly basis. I deserve no ranking or belts in either but I have learned a few things.

ok you learned a few things , that does not mean you are basic/intermediate .

what is tai-chi/hsing i/bagua groundwork

I have an understanding of the movements I'll be demonstrating. I wont be demonstrating movements that I don't understand. That would just be foolish and arrogant.

Do I deserve a belt in these systems? Hell no. If I went a round, strictly bjj, with someone of any belt in that system, I'd get tapped/snapped super quick. That's because I would be playing their game. However, as I have said before, body mechanics are body mechanics. An elbow only bends one way no matter what style you are using. I have come to somewhat of an understanding of body mechanics through the internal arts. This understanding translates over into other arts as well. Some of the chin na from these arts translates over to groundwork well, others you need to adapt. Same goes for the striking.

I'll be entering an mma tournament in June. My wife will be videotaping it. If I win, I'll put it up here. If I lose, I'll just tell you I won. Haha, j/k. I will put up the video regardless of how I do.

One last note. I am not claiming to be great at ground fighting. Quite the opposite, I am claiming to be moderately comfortable and training to be better. When my video comes up, I look forward to what you guys have to say, believe it or not. Criticism is just an opportunity to improve.

good for you on entering the tournament.
You still havent said what taichi/bagua/hsingi ground work is.
What does moderately comfortable on the ground mean ?
Anyways looking forward to seeing the video.

Kelly,

A lot of whether you win or lose in a MMA competition depends on how you match up with your opponent. If you were going to fight an experienced wrestler or BJJ person, you can probably bet that they would want to take the fight to the ground. If that's the case, you might want to come up with a Strategy to understand that and not necessarily have you fight their strength.

The objective is to understand what your strength is and keep the fight in that area.

Good luck.
Joe

http:\thestudywithin.blogspot.com

Good luck. Seriously.

Garret, thank you. Moderately comfortable on the ground means that I have some experience there and I've rolled around with some good BJJ guys. This means that I know that it is not my strong suit, yet, and that I am better at fighting on my feet. However, I have rolled enough, that I can make it difficult for someone with some ground skill to keep me there. I will never be much of a submission fighter simply because I don't want to. I am training pretty hard right now on take down defense and anti grappling skills on the ground. There is one guy that keeps getting me though. His guard is really good and tight and I have a hard time fighting out of it. So I do have a long way to go, I know. haha.
As for what tc,bg,hy groundwork. I am not sure what you are looking for. Do want like a specific movement? It is taichi, bagua, and hsing yi principles and technique aplied on the ground. That simple. Some stuff ends up looking like generic ground work, other stuff looks more unique.

Joseph, you speak the truth. Taehou, Master Lu's son, has told me that my goal should be to throw and let them stand up. Work in close and throw. We are kind of using this tournament to gage where I am. To see if I can resist getting taken down and if I do get taken down, how do I handle myself. That kind of thing. I am pretty good with my hands and I am getting better with my sweeps/throws/takedowns. I have good legs from my tae kwan do days, but from sparring with taichi guys from my school I learned that that ended up with me getting thrown a lot.

Backarcher, thank you very much.

By Kelly Crofts-Johnson on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 03:12 pm: Edit Post

Jason, I understand what you are saying. I can see your point of view. All I can say is different backgrounds, haha. Good trainings.

I said " there will be a video for sale for $20."

are we talking to the same people? you're statement didn't seem to be directed at me, but rather another poster.

please don't charge us to view the MMA bout.

''It is taichi, bagua, and hsing yi principles and technique aplied on the ground. That simple. Some stuff ends up looking like generic ground work, other stuff looks more unique. ''

Which leaves me absolutely none the wiser as to what you are talking about.

Is it generally focused on getiing back to your feet as quickly as possible , whilst defending yourself?

Is it focused on offensive movements on the ground ?

Is it a combination of the above ?

Is it off your back , or maybe relies more on a turtle(all fours position).

If internal could be generalised as stick and follow how do you apply this when someone has you in mount and is punching you in the head ?

Kelly,
I am interested in your thoughts as to why no one has done this as of yet? I have seen no one doing any MMA while using these principles. are you the first one?
Jake

Jason,
"you're proposal that technique must be drilled for period 'x' before sparring is initiated is something I don't agree with.

Sparring should begin very early, perhaps the first day.

In my judo club, beginners are given 1-2 practice sessions before being allowed to spar.
1=learning to fall
2=watching the more experienced students, how they behave and what the rules/etiquette is."

This is what I was replying to sir.

Garrett, ah I see what you mean. Ok, well my interpretation is to get me out of the grappling situation for the most part. Now it also includes ways to strike and submit from the ground. I still don't feel completely comfortable on the ground if I am there with somebody who is really good, so most of the time I am using it to get back to a standing position. An example is I was working some sweeps from being in full mount this past weekend. lately we've been putting me in bad positions and having me do my best to get out.
As for your aforementioned situation, trap the arm and sweep.

Jake, I seriously doubt that in all of China/Taiwan's history that they never ended up fighting on the ground. I also doubt that they didn't recognize the need to be able to fight from there. I don't know why you haven't seen it in MMA yet. You see it in Sanshou every once in awhile. Taiji, Bagua, and Hsing Yi all have methods for fighting on the ground. It is just a matter of looking for them and then drilling them.

Kelly,
Look, I do not wish to toot my own horn here, but I have been in a similar place (mindset) as you are currently in. I have trained for over 17 years now, and while I am not that great, I have sought out and trained with some of the best in this hemisphere! My two main teachers; Tim Cartmell & Hu Xi Lin, are two of the best I have ever come across! Both grappling experts in their own right with more fighting experience than the majority of this board put together. Their teachers reads as a whos who of CMA.
In all this experience not one, NO ONE, has ever seen/heard about, any kind of systemized methodology of ground fighting/grappling in the CMA. Period bro. I have studied some Fukien Dog Boxing. I have done some Di Tan, and Monkey work. 99% of it is bunk! Tim has taught us the Di Long Jin (Ground Dragon Classic) which is a few techniques to deal with someone standing over you trying to kick, or punch you. But even he will admit these techniques are antiquated for the most part! And again, they do not encompass ground fighting/grappling.
The reason I (and everyone else) have not seen any form of CMA ground fighting in MMA is quite simple..... BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST BRO!!!!
If it did you know some bigwig somewhere would jump all over it and it would be the newest craze. But no one has, because no one can.
I admire your perserverance, and your dedication to the art, but do not let the dedication cloud your willingness to admit the inherent weakness' in your current arts in order to seak out further instruction expanding your understanding of your body, and combat in general! I have had to empty my cup once again to learn BJJ, and though it has been a frustrating journey so far, I have fallen in love with it! BJJ is my new mistress as my girl says;) It has really opened my eyes, forced me to be honest about my weakness', and given me a whole new perspective on the martial arts.
I encourage you to do the same and see where it leads you, as I think that path will be much more rewarding and fruitful than the one you currently walk. I wish you the best.
Jake

Thank you for your thoughts sir. It is cool that you have been in the arts this long.