Garet, haha getting a little heated?

"Listen man I trained in Tims , before that almost everything in CMA that I was taught was a load of crap. People who couldnt apply a throw or joint lock against someone resisting trying to teach someone else how to do it. A 7 year old girl could choke me out or finger lock me if I let her you idiot."

I'm not sure the idiot comment was necessary but oh well, haha. Maybe I am an idiot. There are a lot of BS schools out there. I shouldn't say that. There are a lot of schools that don't focus on the combat parts of Kung Fu.

"Your the one living in the fantasy Just go and compete somewhere anywhere and see how you get on."

I actually am training to compete. There is a tournament coming up in Vegas that I am considering going to. It is cheap, so I am inclined towards it. Unfortunately it is something called "controlled MMA." I am not entirely sure what that means. My eventual plan is to compete in the UCE, but I want a little bit more experience before I give that a shot. Do you guys know anything about "controlled MMA." I hope its good.

"Dont know much about Tang Shou Tao but good for them if they do full contact , do you ?
Why dont you try them out ?
Or go to Tims ?
Or do something other than writing •••• on the internet !"

Tim comes from Tang Shou Tao. They are the schools comming from Hong Yi Hsiang. I do train full contact. Right now I am actually training a little bit more than normal to get ready for the competition. I am not sure why you have a problem with me discussing things on the internet seeing as you do it as well.

I have a couple buddies that train with the Thai Boxers and the Judo guys from the websites you listed. Grappling is not my thing. I train at Master Lu's Health Center. I do like testing myself though and quite frequently engage in sessions with people from other disciplines. Today in a couple hours I will actually be training with a wrestler.

So where do you currently train?

One of Tims many teachers was affiliated with Tang Shou Tao.
Jake

"After many years of training, Hsu opened his own martial arts school. Hsu's school used a modified version of the Tang Shou Tao (唐手道; lit. Chinese Hand Way) system developed by his teacher Hung I-Hsiang. Hsu named his school Shen Long Tang Shou Tao (神龙唐手道; lit. Spirit Dragon Chinese Hand Way). Tang Shou Tao is not a separate style of martial art, but rather a practical, step-by-step, systematic approach to learning internal martial arts and developing highly refined levels of skill."

Enough said. Hsu hong chi was a senior student of the creator of the Tang Shao Tao.

As I said, one of Tim's many teachers.....

Stars is an excellent program. They will have some great players there, but 'IJF' style players. Maybe not the deadly ninja fight we're presumably talking about here...

What is this stars program? Also what is a "IJF" style player? Haha, I dont know the lingo.

hey kelly do you wear magic underwear?

no but my invisible cloak has many powers.

Stars is just the name of a judo club.

IJF is international judo federation, the ones that organize major competitions, including worlds and olympics.

an 'IJF' style player is one that fights in such a way to manipulate the rules of judo (IJF) or within the confines of said rules to ensure the highest probable odds of winning an IJF match.

let me help you;

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=TL05Es8LVAQ

please watch at least this entire video. it will help.

just wondering what other imaginary BS you believed in

Ok cool, thank you for clarifying that Jason. As for the clip, I completely agree. I have never said anything to dispute those facts. I will also say however, that you cannot just start out in a live environment. You need to go through drills and set applications many times or in live training you wont be able to apply them. If you go straight to live training, like so many schools do, you'll fight just like a kid on the school ground.

Jean Paul, I believe in mr. Cartmell. Mr Cartmell believes and trained in the internal martial arts. Are you calling him BS. That is pretty bold to do so on his website.

Kelly the first day I trained with Tim , I sparred live , and so does everyone else.
Its the only way to train. You can train any art this way and in fact its how you train not what you train.

That doesent mean anyone was trying to kill me , they were giving me a level of resistance sufficient to seriously challenge me. After you do that 5 times a week for a month or so , learning to relax , trying to breathe and learning to move your hips and develop some timing becomes a necessity not an academic abstract.

In my opinion this was one of the most important things to learn when studying any martial art.

I agree that live training is very important. However, in the traditional martial arts, there is no way that you can apply those techniques without drilling them. Even Brazilian Jujitsu guys drill their movements. For basic free fighting, sure you can get good with just experience, but we don't want to get good. We want to be the best we can be. First day of my boxing class, we learned the basic punches and drilled them a lot. later we made combinations. then we started using tools like focus mits, the heavy bag, agility bag, etc. then we did controlled sparring. then we put on the gear and "went at it."

Anybody can learn to fight by fighting. I am not trying to learn how to fight though. I am trying to learn how to fight using hsing yi, bagua, and taiji. There is a difference.

""Even Brazilian Jujitsu guys drill their movements. For basic free fighting, sure you can get good with just experience, but we don't want to get good. We want to be the best we can be. First day of my boxing class, we learned the basic punches and drilled them a lot. later we made combinations. then we started using tools like focus mits, the heavy bag, agility bag, etc. then we did controlled sparring. then we put on the gear and "went at it." ""

Those are some valid points. However, my study of motor learning has led me to completely disagree with you. A motor task as complex as fighting thrives on open-ended, nay random resistive practice that is varied, unpredictable and cognitively and physically challenging.

The most important part of any motor program is relative timing, and almost without fail this is flawed in 'drills'.

Additionally, the difference between being a good fighter and a good forms performer comes in cognition; stimulus identification and motor program selection. This can't be developed outside of sparring.

kelly, have you trained with tim recently?

maybe you should come by and his students can help you get ready for your tournament.

and btw, what you did is called a "straw man" fallacy.

"are you calling him (Tim) BS ?"

you are attacking a position i simply do not take, nor have i done anything to imply so.

GW did also in the 2000 elections calling McCain pro-cancer because he chose to fund a vaccination program instead of a cancer research initiative.

you're gonna have to better than GW.

he also believes in BS.

Drills when properly structured, can help to refine techniques used in free sparring. New drills can be created to solve certain problems that are encountered in free sparring.

Defending beliefs is wasted energy. Gets too personal whether one admits it or not. Its good to share ideas. Just take or leave it. Guess people love to argue just as much as they love to fight.

Ok, Jason first, haha.
Well that was a good post sir. I had a bit of difficulty at first knowing what your terms meant but as I read on it started to make sense. Right now I am in college for personal training and we are learning the basics of a lot of the things you are talking about in there. That is kind of cool I think.
Back to the discussion at hand; I understand what you are saying I think. I agree that sparring is the only way to prepare your mind and body for the realities of sparring. However, I still believe that without drilling and other training, your sparring will never be as good as it could be. Ask somebody who has never practiced catching kicks before to catch a full power/speed kick that you choose at random. Not likely that they will succeed. Also, if by chance they do succeed, they will undoubtedly do so missing key tactical elements. Facts are facts, there are certain "better," more tactically sound ways to catch kicks than others. You can learn those ways and then practice them until you can do so in a controlled environment very well. Later you practice doing them in an uncontrolled environment. The difference between Muhammad Ali and some street thug is the difference between Refined movements and Primal instincts. You tell me; who would win? Muhammad Ali, or the thug.

Now Jean Paul,
I have never trained with Tim or any of his students. I would like the chance to spar with some of them at some point to get some more experience, however I haven't the opportunity yet. I am preparing for another trip down to Mexico early next year so most of my money is going to that. If I get a chance to though, I would love to. That is, if Tim would accept that.

"and btw, what you did is called a "straw man" fallacy."

well btw, what your did is called "being a prick." Dont throw punches if you cant take them.

Dirty Rat's turn, haha.
Well said. I agree. This is all in good fun and whenever people come from different backgrounds, they are bound to differ in opinion.

you're proposal that technique must be drilled for period 'x' before sparring is initiated is something I don't agree with.

Sparring should begin very early, perhaps the first day.

In my judo club, beginners are given 1-2 practice sessions before being allowed to spar.
1=learning to fall
2=watching the more experienced students, how they behave and what the rules/etiquette is.