Hi. I'm a fairly new practitioner of Xing Yi and I was wondering what does a typical class is like for you guys. I'm a little disappointed in the limited sparring time alloted although we have something called "four corners" which provides low resistance practice. I'm in Canada and I learn under Eric Tuttle.

-Thanks

Classes start with warm up, conditioning and Nei Gong exercises. Then we practice forms. Next comes technique and sparring practice which is about a half to two thirds of the class time. Students are expected to practice forms at home, so once new movements are taught and the forms are corrected, we don't spend class time repeating forms. We utilize class time for paired training. Beginning students practice more controlled sparring drills and more advanced students practice contact sparring and throwing while wearing protective gear. We also break down the sparring training into attribute specific formats. For example, sometimes the fighters are only allowed to strike with the hands. Sometimes they are only allowed to practice throwing and locking techniques etc. We also do a fair amount of work striking pads and 'focus mitt' type training.

I remember Uncle Ron B. hitting me when I was padded up. It felt like I was run over by a steam roller. I love that contact and paired training stuff.

Too bad he's a such nice guy. He could be the next Huntington Beach bad boy...

hhhmmm...Nice guy? You don't train with him every week. He's a maniac. He will slap and kick you all over the place. When you've been sufficiently demoralized he will do an armdrag go behind you and throw you down. As far as I'm concerned Ron is the original Huntington Beach Bad Boy. When I go to class I usually address him as Mr. Bad Boy, Sir. He hits like he has hands of lead. Really scary stuff. It's to be expected because I think he has been with Tim the longest.

I don't see it! Dreams maybe?

Little known fact for fans of Ron B. : He was an assistant instructor who taught me when I first started training in San Soo in the early 70's.

Ron looks like a teddy bear... but puts the hurt to you like a grizzly. To supplement the pain jetting through your body as it hits the ground, he adds a little laugh that lets you know he was being gentle.

It's a good thing Ron doesn't know how good he is-
or else he'd go out looking for trouble to beat down. (Kinda like Charles Bronson would if he looked like Charlie Brown. Face it... someone stirring up trouble with Charles Bronson knows he's asking for a fight... someone messing with Charlie Brown aint expecting what's coming next... which makes it even more unsettling.)

I think Ron is more handsome than Charlie Brown and Charles Bronson. Although that Linus, that kid is a looker.

Seriously, Ron is one of the great guys that Tim has in his school. You guys are lucky to be able to train with him. The only character flaw that I see with Ron is that he's a little too honest. That doesn't settle well when you have Neopolitan blood running through your veins...

good training,
Joe

Ron is talented but humble to a fault. Then he tries to convince you that you are being wacked around by "just some guy". I think he makes it his personal mission to make his training partner experience personally what a real attack feels like, a lesson I appreciate greatly if only in small doses.

I don't know who the person who calls himself "arb" is above that left a message about xingyi 2 person training, but I have calculated that he/she has only attended xingyi class with Sifu Eric Tuttle only a few times. I don't know who "arb" has been training with but I have been a student of Sifu Tuttle for about 31/2 years and I can tell you that four corners or any other 2 person training in Honan 6 harmony 10 animal style Xingyi doesn't have to be "low resistance practice" at all, quite the opposite in fact. However if you ("arb" would like a new and more experienced training partner I would be more than happy to oblige as one for you.

Arb,

I'm sorry that you feel disappointed with the "minimal" sparring exercises provided in your training, however, did you not say that you were new to Xingyi? What good will it do you to spar with close to no animal forms/applications under your belt? It'd only end up in a punching match and you would have learned nothing except for maybe how to dodge a punch or what it feels like getting hit in various places (things you can learn elsewhere without wasting xingyi practice time). Besides, 4 corners lets you get all that and more with less "injuries". It's a good exercise for conditioning the ENTIRE body to hit and how to take hits and has the ability to add on striking applications to the drills. Be patient my friend. Xingyi wasn't nicknamed the "black death" in china for nothing. Sparring with Xingyi is very dangerous which is one of the main reasons I believe that it isn't/shouldn't be introduced so early on in one's training. Best cover the basics first (individual animals, forms, lines, etc.) which by themselves takes quite awhile to get the hang of mind you!! I have been a student of Sifu Tuttle for over 6 years now and I can assure you, it would be worth your while to stay true to your training. Should you still be a skeptic, then I advise you go and ask Sifu Tuttle for a demonstration, he'll gladly give you one. However, if it's the fact that you think that your time spent training is getting you nowhere with Xingyi, then I advise you take Justin Kutzko up on his offer and see how much he's learned in just 3 1/2 years. I have trained with Kutzko and can assure you that his Xingyi is really good. He trains hard and has gone through the same process as you and I. Or heck, if you're in Vancouver, give me a shout and I'll gladly show you a thing or two about the benefits of 4 corners.

For Arb on Sparring in Xing Yi:

My name is Merlyn Foo, and I have been a student of Sifu Eric Tuttle for 3 years now. I have been learning Six Harmony Xing Yi Chuan, Chen Style Tai Ji Chuan, and Ba Gua Zhang from Sifu Tuttle for the past 3 years. I feel that I am a little bit qualified now to talk about my martial arts training experience.

First, I'd like to address the issue of a system-student relationship in martial arts practice. Typically, one does not call oneself a student of a system, then go on to insult that system. If one does not want to be a student of that system, or if one is in any particular way disappointed with the training in that system, one leaves the system. One of the many things so great about the voluntary learning experience is: it is entirely voluntary! Imagine that!

Second, there is my problem with you calling yourself a student of Sifu Tuttle. If, as you wrote, you come to the Queen's Kung Fu Club, and you are a newcomer to Xing Yi, then you may not, and I repeat, MAY NOT, call yourself Sifu Tuttle's Xing Yi student. The reasoning is very simple: Sifu Tuttle has been teaching in Nelson, B.C. for the last two years (except last summer), and therefore, 1, unless you came to the summer training, or 2, you've somehow managed to go back and forth between Kingston and Nelson over the Fall Term (September - December, 2001), then there is not even a remote possibility that you should be able to say that "you learn under Eric Tuttle." How would I know this? Because I also belong to the Queen's Kung Fu Club, and yes, I am proud to call myself a student of Xing Yi, and even more so, a student of Sifu Eric Tuttle.

Third, as was disclosed at the beginning of each year, there will not be any sparring in the classes. In many high level martial arts, and particularly in Xing Yi, there is no sparring, only death fighting. I.e., when you prepare to fight, you prepare to die. That is why Xing Yi is called the Black Death in China. It is not called that to scare little children and immature adults, it is called that because it causes death or serious injuries when one uses it. And that is why the Grandmaster Yu Hua Long always advises us: "Do not use this on people!" I know that for the simple reason that I was there when he said it! I was also there when he told the story of killing someone by using a single Iron Bar. I do not, in all conscience, think that sparring with Iron Bars is a good idea, even though sometimes, it might seem like somebody really deserves it!

And my final point, for now, is the issue of how to address someone who one views as one's teacher. One does not call them by their full name. More specifically, it is not "Eric Tuttle" to one; it is Sifu, and ALWAYS Sifu!

Ahhhh, the "I'm too deadly" argument appears at last.

that's how you weed out the students from the teachers... The best kill the mediocre and go on to teach.

!!! "Black Death?!" Holly... "there is no sparring only death fighting" ! ha ha ha ha !!! "Sifu and only Sifu" !

Typical Saturday afternoon kung fu movie crap. Get over it.

Hey Tim,

When you were fighting in the full contact tournaments in China, competing with your
Hsing-Yi class.... how many opponents did you kill?

and what was it like watching classmates maimed
or killed during the daily full contact sparring?

No fatalities.

I have a request for Eric Tuttle's students. Could you describe the "Four Corners" sparring drill you mention above? Thanks

Tim,

Were YOU ever killed or maimed while death fight sparring in Xing-Yi????

No fatalities? Are you sure you were doing it right?

I thought it was called 'Black Death' in China to disuade folks of African decent from studying it.