Hello Tim,

I have been doing Yiquan for about 6 months now and concentrate quite heavily on basic health stance. I have noticed in recent weeks that I have some discomfort in the patellar tendon of my right knee (maybe mild tendonitis). I wonder if you or anyone has any specific advice(other than "adjust position so it doesn't hurt", or "don't stand so much", that might help me to combat this?

By the way - can I say that I find this one of the most useful resources for information on the "internal arts" available on the web. Thanks.

Ensure that while standing your knees are not further forward than your toes.

Hey Barry, who do you practice Yiquan under?

Barry
I find that interresting as standing is one of the few things that doesn't make my bad knee swell and hurt. There are websites on knee and joint problems. You might find something usefull on one of these. My experience is that any soreness should be in the muscle, never the joint. If you had said this about weight training, I would say you were using too heavy a weight.

Generic advice: Quit until the pain is gone, wait an additional two weeks to two months, then start over again gradually.

Also, check carefully that perhaps some other part of your training is actually the cause of the problem.

Beware, if you screw up a knee, it will never be right again, err on the side of caution.

Hi Barry,
It's hard to say why your knee hurts when you stand. Did it ever hurt before you started practicing Yi Quan? Does it hurt when you do anything else? Have you asked your teacher about it?

You may want to adjust the position so that the knees are only very slightly bent (so that a plumb line dropped from the front of the kneecap would not fall past the center of your foot). It is also important to check the overall alignment of the torso. If you collapse your lower back or curl your tailbone under, the pressure may cause stress on the knees.

Thanks Tim (and everone who has responded). My teacher (Elliot, that's Karel) has said a number of similar things. I am curious to read Tim's point about tucking the talibone though, as I have noticed that this seems to increase the strain in my knee. I do this to an extent (even though it feels that this is correct) and perhaps I am overdoing it. I'll try not to force it in future and see if this helps. Thanks for the advice.

As a side note, the depths that you can go in to standing as a practice amazes me. I come from a kick-boxing background and when my teacher told me that "standing was integral to developing internal power" I thought that he was having a laugh. Then I did an exercise where I had to try and push his teeny wife over - I couldn't budge her. Embarrassing.

Always discuss these types of injuries with your instructor.

As you practice, there are many levels/stages that the body will pass into.

A good example:

All of a sudden I would get very painful foot arch pain from even the slightest amount of work. It was something that was new to the training and I thought that somehow my arches were getting into trouble and I needed support. I went and had inserts made for shoes and this didnt help either. Once I spoke to my instructor about it, he made the suggestion that I was allowing energy to stagnate into my calves and feet. He then used a few acupressure points on my legs to release the energy. Although the points hurt, I could feel the pain in my feet and even legs subside as he did it.

To make a long story short (too late), talk with him and other people who are practicing as well. Perhaps it is something to be careful or perhaps it is part of the muscle/body learning process.

I asked my doctor about this tucking the tailbone
and he said that it just removes the natural springiness from the area and he thinks it's not wise to do so esspecially if you were to apply
any force to your motions/spar/meet resistance
as this could cause serious damage to your spine.
Just fyi you do what you think is best.

Hi Tim,

I'm wondering about not tucking under the tailbone. I'm always taught in Taiji to do this and was always corrected by the masters (some of them very well known guys) when not doing it. So - do I understand something wrong when looking at it as a general principal not to took the tailbone under in Xingyi or is it just to avoid kneepain, but normally done? Maybe it's just a problem of words (I'm a german player) and I translate "tucking under" in awrong way. For me "tucking under" happens while straightening the spine in the lumbar curve.
Greetings

My name is not Tim but I felt like posting

I have knee problems and struggled with this for some time.

My experience is that if I let my lower back hang down from about mingmen like a pendulum while doing standing(like zhan zhuang) it is not tucked and non untucked. It feels good and natural for me and my knee does not hurt. I let my body find what is natural. Various teachers say it is tucked when we engage and I can in general terms definitely feel a springy, controllable power from it.

I have also seen different body types and each one looks different even though they have the correct posture, some look tucked, some too much, and some have a huge butt so who can tell by sight?

I found what is right for me through still standing and this tuckedness understanding can be transferred once felt and known.

Bob

Hans-Peter,
If you click on 'Topics' and then click on 'Concepts' you will find a thread on 'Yoga and the Martial Arts.' This thread is all about the pros and cons of tucking the tailbone under.

My personal view is that forcing the body into unatural postures will never make it stronger or more efficient than maintaining natural posture (the posture designed for us by nature and evolution). I teach to maintain a neutral posture, with the natural lumbar curve (although sometimes the pelvis may curl under, sometimes it may arch back as conditions demand). In general, you will always be able to produce more force and bring more whole body power into play with the lower back over-arched than tucked under. This is why it is important to arch the back when lifting a heavy weight.

You guys all said alot of good advice for Barry's knees, but forgot something very important.

Knee exercises and massages prior to and after training. Theres a two really good ones in "Xing Yi Nei Gong" by Dan Miller and Tim himself; Exercise 13: Pressing on the knees regulates the meridians and Exercise 14:Strengthening the Meridians by Rubbing the Knees and Stretching the Body (great book by the way). Go to a Chinese book store and ask where is the martial arts section and you would be utterly surprised as to how many exercises are not being taught to us by American Teachers because of the language barrior. Just look at the pictures. The WuDong books have really good exercises for knees and legs. Just hang out there for a good 2 hours, you wont regret it. Plus the chinese books are twice as cheap as english books!

I work out with external stylists (Muay Thai, Jijitsu etc) who are doing the internal that I know and in turn I do the external they do. Their knees are killing them. But mine dont hurt at all or very very little because I take these exercises very seriously and take my sweet time with the breath. They infact half %ss the exercises. But this weekend I'm going to stress the issue.

Thanks for making me think about this,
Hidden Palm