Next question...
where in europe?

I may know what you mean, and I may not! In the link that you gave there is a correspondence course for sale. In cluding a first and a second stage. I do not know how familiar you ae with th contents, if at all, but can, in your opinion, the'feeling' be passed without face to face contact?

Ed

In the very heart of Europe, I am.

I have no idea how the corr. course is. Maybe if the price is acceptable (more or less like a book) could be as getting a flavour of it, since Juhai is very very far away, my friend. Anyway I can imagine it being at leats 100 times better than any yiquan book on the market..

I have begun practicing one of Park Bok Nams exercises which is essentially standing in San Ti and and having a small waist movement. I find that my thighs are ok (probably from the past year and a half of standing) however my calves are the weak point here. Anybody else had similar experience?

Small movement? Good stuff. Will be glad to hear more details. Do you lift your heels up?

Are you wearing the Park Bok Nam silk pjs?

Moose

No, the stance stays stable. One rotates at the waist about an eight of a turn and the hand position changes, the arm remains extended and does not move relative to the body. It's taught as an exercise for deflecting an opponents arm, but but contains the critical elements for training legs, waist, and shoulder. I just found it interesting that my calves were the weak link in the exercise and are being strengthened rather than the thighs.

Oh, Bob

I've been wearing old swim trunks. And like Tim, I like my freedom.

Mark,

It's very likely that Park Bok Nam had stood in that Santi position for years until one day his teacher smiled at him and said, "Okay. From now on you can move your waist..." Since it took him so long to aquire the truth, it's understandable that he didn't want give away the secrete right away. Of course you can find an application for anything you do, but what's the *power training* behind this move?

When you do it slowly, i mean very slowly, does it feel like someone is holding your waist?

Moose

I'm not sure what your point is now, it 's quite a bit diferent then where I started when I brought this up.

I perform it at what speed feels natural, neither deliberately slow, nor pushing for speed. I have not experienced the sensation you mentioned, although have only done a few thousand repetitions so far.

I'm a little curious about your question 'where's the power training' in the exercise? I would have thought your time spend standing would have allowed you to see that. I can eloborate, but I think there is another category on this site for that topic.

Mark,
That exercise is what is called "Small/Subtle Movement" in zhanzhuang, these kind of exercise is one of the many untold pieces in a complete training program. Even in the most honest books written in Chinese they are mentioned "casually": it's upto the careful reader to read between the lines.

To just stand there motionless and hope to move like a loose cannon ball is like to do a taichi set over and over and hope to move like a loose cannon ball. Not totally impossible, but nearly impossible given the among of time most people put into them. To understand zhanzhuang you have to move while doing zhanzhuang. You move so slowly that most people won't notice you are moving.

Moose

I don't know about that particular aspect of training. I do standing and my moving exercises have been steping.

Do to age and previous injuries and illnesses I train hard two days in a row. Third day is alternately easy or off. A while back I decided that I would do a minimum of one hundred thousand repetitions of any movement that seemed to be critical or a core movement. (doesn't take as long as some people might think). However, that type of 'obvious' skill is easy to judge. Without trusted, competent instruction, it is dificult to determine where to go with my standing practice.

Mark,
Taiji has SRE, what's the Xingyi equivalent? I think that Santi move you are doing is 1/3 of it, it moves /rotates left and right, missing a forward-backward component and a up-down component.

Your counting method has advantage and disadvantage. Counting your repetitions calmes you down, but you has less time to "taste" that movement. Once your mind is calm, you can let go of the counting.

Everyone who's studying martial arts should look for "maps". Yiquan is worth studying because it puts a high level map in the public domain. You modify that map to fit your style and take it with you whenever you go to a travel agency(a book, a seminar or a teacher), your goal is to expand your map into a driving map. Say from San Francisco to New York, if your travel agency is offering New York city maps, walk away; if he gives you the Colorado map, you ask him in private how to go from San Francisco to Colorado; if you run out of travel agencies, you sit down and analyze what you have, break it down to smaller and smaller pieces and draw your own map.

Coming back to the original topic: Wuji is San Francisco, Santi is somewhere in Salt Lake City. Cheers.

Iron Moose writes:

"Taiji has SRE, what's the Xingyi equivalent?"

Five Element Fists.

"Silk Reeling" is just six-harmonies movement carried to a fare-thee-well and all of Taiji must use six-harmonies movement or it becomes "not-neijin". All of Xingy is supposed to be six-harmonies movement, too. So any area of Xingyi taken out and practiced repetitively will be a form of "silk reeling".

FWIW

Mike

WTF is SRE????

Hightech wannabe ChiHugger.

I think it means silk reeling energy.

TFS!!!

That F%^*&^$ sucks?

Mike,
Sorry for causing the counfusion, I thought the E in SRE refers to "Exercise" which Walter described in the Ground Connection thread. If SRE is done as a single movement form then it's corresponding to the 5 element; if it's done very slowly to look for the "subtance" than it may be the same idea as the Testing Power in Yiquan. Regardless, it's a shame that most of the Xinyi being taught today has the 5 elements and Santi but nothing in between.

I was surprised that Park Bok Nams actually taught that movement, perhaps Mark can copy the text here if it's not too inconvenient. For your reference, here's a section translated from a book written by Chen Kaiyun in Hongkong:

"The right palm has the intention of pointing forward while it leads its forearm to rotate outward, the left palm pulls backward slightly with its forearm twisting inward, the body rotates to the left as much as it can, whereas the head should never follow the torso movement. Pay attention to the coordination of the two hands while maintaining a smooth strength."

BTW, Mark, actually it was the tendons in your calves that got the needed exercise.

Wait, Xinyi schools must teach the step-and-follow-up-step which focus on just the lower part of the body. I would put that somewhere in ...Chicago.

Bob #2 and Meynard's dressing downs are starting to look more and more like team dressage. Its one thing to not be a slave to fashion, but isn't about time to update the wardrobe? I'll be expecting a few hand me downs.