Question For Tim

Tim's Discussion Board: Martial Arts - Miscellaneous: Question For Tim

   By Tim on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 02:41 am: Edit Post


"What if I was really Tim, disguising myself as Jack Vincent?"

Stop trying to confuse me.

I went to the instructors class at Jimmy's on Saturdays for three years. We'd chat now and then.

The last time I saw Jimmy he invited me to lunch at his house. I was back visiting from Taiwan. We talked about the arts I was studying and what Jimmy thought of the training. The last thing he said to me was "be a good boy over there."

   By Rich on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 03:52 am: Edit Post

So what Jack Vincent is saying is Tim is not Tim, but Jack.

I am confused.

Who is Jimmy and does he own a chicken shack.

A little pun for anyone that ever heard of the band Jimmys chicken shack.

   By Enforcer on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 04:23 am: Edit Post

from someone wrote:

"Although Delta probably uses stealth to perform ops, it's not hand-to-hand they excel in. They train H2H at a very rudimentary level. If they have extensive MA training, its because they've done it on their own time."

   By stan (Unregistered Guest) on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 10:23 am: Edit Post


That is true. Groups are taught the 'template' (concept and mechanics) devoid of poofy stuff and it serves as a survival tool. Yes, the level is rudimentary but as stated, the physical conditioning, the cardiovascular preparation, etc all serve as groundwork.

repetition, repetition, repetition that is the rule. That is how skill is developed. Work on basics and over time basics may seem as 'secret'.
Thats the secret of Krav Maga.

   By Marine (Unregistered Guest) on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 02:06 pm: Edit Post

You obviously are not talking from personal experience. I suggest you enlist in the Marines and go for an 0300 field and then talk with intel.

   By Richard Shepard on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 02:13 pm: Edit Post

Hi Marine,

Are you still in the Corps? How do you like the new Marine martial arts program?

   By Rich on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 02:16 pm: Edit Post

To enforcer,
I am glad to hear the military trains in rudimentary martial arts, that means they are in the great company of Li Cun Yi, Chen Pan Ling and Sun Lu Tang.

   By Jack Vincent (Unregistered Guest) on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 11:05 am: Edit Post

Hey Bobbi-two,

Good attempt at content, but sticks and stones nursery rhyme quality is still below par.
Insightful is how insight does, Forest. You know, like bobbi do like bobbi two.

However, I liked "diatribe." Although I have no idea what it means?

I am going to have to take a sabaticle to ponder the essence of your insightful tao te ching quailty profundities - "at the higest level" junk. I'll write back in a couple of years after I have figured that one out. But's its gonna be a real toughie! Wish me luck - Jack

   By Jack Vincent (Unregistered Guest) on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 11:43 am: Edit Post

Hi Tim,

Well, I know I'm not Tim. And for all I know you could be Tim, are you Tim? Hey, all this Markinson stuff has to stop.

I test attributes of training everyday. Martial strategy and social strategy parallel each other. Knowing this (not jusy intellecually understanding it)enables kung fu education to be wide and vastly practical.

Oh, as for deep stuff and the essence of martial arts (I tremebleeeee and sta-sta-der just wra- writting that), how about remaining unaffected, enabling one to transcend the variables of the moment.

Does training allow one to be calm and graceous, extending undeserved favor (grace), the accutrements of kwan yin, and benevolent advancement and protection (attributes of kwan kung). Or is ot just about laying more hurt on the other guy than he lays on you.

Tim, I have been in many fights, and after reflecting upon them I have never won one socialy and never lost one psychologically - and went about 75 - 25 physically. (I know the quire wants to know what side the 75 is on). Doesent matter cause I still walk upright and am writing, although my nose is crooked and my knees hurt at times.

Point is a braod kung fu educatin allows you to test your attributes daily, without need for physical contact (But, that is a fun part, if you have developed the taste for pain. Kinda like Uni and fermentted soy bean cured - an acuried taste).

Tim, this is a fun place and thanks for provinding the space. I appreciate it. But, inquiring mind want to know, were you a good boy over there? (I wonder how Jimmy would of quailified "good boy?")

I'm Jack. wait - let me check the mirror. Yeah, I'm still Jack. Really, I aint jack, i'm just a man trying to do his best, relentlessly, effectively and efficently.

   By Enforcer on Monday, May 02, 2005 - 01:35 am: Edit Post

where do you live to have gotten into exactly 100 fights?

   By Kenneth Sohl on Monday, May 02, 2005 - 08:21 am: Edit Post

Enforcer, I think it was more of an approximate percentage thing about the nature of the outcomes rather than an exact tally.

Jack, some of the more derogatory responses to your posts aren't made by people who don't understand what you are getting at, they don't want to as that would make a sham of their supposed proficiency that exists only as far as their training hall entrance. Now I've known more than one athlete who could fight for real as well, but you feel the intent of MA training should be pure in its focus on one thing only. I'd like to offer this as food for thought.

MAs evolve. If something is no longer practical, it is dropped. After firearms changed the nature of combat, many MAs died out, as they were no longer useful, other than for athletics. Of course, as civil combat methods, they have a place today, but my point is, if it wasn't for sports, most asian MAs wouldn't be with us today. The few groups who train for reality have reasons that generally rule out publicity. The popular chain schools are usually for selling plastic fangs to sheep. You are trying to reason a point that can only be proven by a moment of extreme lack of reason, if one is lucky.

   By Tim on Monday, May 02, 2005 - 02:06 pm: Edit Post

You are welcome anytime.

I'd be interested to hear about the new Marine Corps martial arts system as well.

   By Jack Vincent (Unregistered Guest) on Monday, May 02, 2005 - 05:18 pm: Edit Post

Thanks Tim, very gracious of you.

Kenneth, you are a joy to bicker with my friend.

I like your point regarding evolution. Iím big on the I-ching (book of changes). The sports thing is what it is. I love everything that is and accept all that is as it is. Acceptance is fundamental to dealing with rapidly advancing change - physically, as in that back hand heading towards my nose, or psychologically as in getting out bid on a case of collector vino (hate it when that happens).

I accept and identify, then self adjust and adapt, to transform "what is" in the moment. It is not about rejecting what is (as rejecting the use of sports etc) but it is about merging with what is to influence the next change. (Did you get that Bobi tooth?). So when Iím off balance psychologically, I focus attention on my body and feel. This allows me to accept identify adjust and adapt to transform my mood. To remain un affected by that chump who out bid me.

According to our conversation, I am saying or suggesting that the renaissance martial artist needs to have his mind in the game (the one with out rules, life). That is, the game that counts biggest. Da biggie.

Can you influence your surrounding without being seen (hidden director of the opponent's fate (martial context). Or, allowing your students to come up with there own conclusions (even though those conclusion are also your own - hey how'd dat happen).

Manipulation, control, you cry. Sure, itís all about control. But it is even more about the intent with which the control is applied. So, are you applying your control to win points, or to win big? Whatís your intent, big, small, good, evil?

Power only intensifies who you are, If you have taken the time to develop yourself, your personal definition; and if you can remain true to that self definition under extreme circumstances, than your character will shine, (because you have confidence in it, Hey confidence and character Ė Iíve heard of that somewhere!) as its is in a good state to be intensified by your power (control of what is inside you and outside you).

If it is not, well the uglier just keep gettin uglier, the hits just keep on comin (I think Danny said that after Demi told him he she was the kids attorney).

So why not use your power to make the world a better place. If you are going to be a fighting machine with a big V 12, why have the handling and steering of a VW. The guidance mechanism should be by lotus. It all about being complete; if you are a builder of cars or men, you have a responsibility to the community (I know there is not much community here, that why I live in the third world - or a weird world as those behind the Orange curtain would think). Community is the purpose of kung fu and can you extend that community beyond the confines of your training facility?

This forum is doing that now. But, what about on an intrinsic interpersonal level. Now that is not about competition, itís about wining for everybody, and when all sides win, business repeats.

   By Jack Vincent (Unregistered Guest) on Monday, May 02, 2005 - 05:24 pm: Edit Post

"You are trying to reason a point that can only be proven by a moment of extreme lack of reason, if one is lucky."

Kenneth, I missed the point here - please elaborate.

PS. Its not so much training halls vs street, but practical ve impractical. If you are investing so much time in your education, with a broad understanding of the principle advanced practitoner most likely already know, they can use thier investment for more than protection. They can make themselves better communicators and providers.

   By Kenneth Sohl on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 08:46 pm: Edit Post

Jack, I've strafed these forums for the past few years, and tho I try to "stimulate" the discussion (see the thread on the reptile brain, my greatest success), the fact is I try out a lot of the things I read here if I can find the resources to do it. There is a variety of MA experience to be found here, why pass up an opportunity? True, there are closed minds here that refuse to see your point or disbelieve your contentions, but that is their loss. Myself, I'd rather benefit from what others meant rather than dismiss their experiences by ascribing my own meaning to their words. When training for "real life", one can't afford to leave any stone unturned, right?

Like you, my training was focused 100% on actual use. I don't mean that in some elitist context, just that our training was geared for that alone. I have seen my sifu(though we never called him that) fight for real, I have used what he taught us for real. I have never seen a fighter like my instructor, not at tournaments, not in films, not at any MA school I've visited before or since. I've never found a group who trained the way our "clan" did. But I refuse to withdraw into a corner to sit on some high horse. I will take responsibility for my own training. I feel almost any kind of "live" martial training is much better than doing nothing. Timing, distance, angling are used by every practical style and such principles ingrained into one's movements are applicable to any style.

I strongly feel that the most comprehensive real-world combat training is russian SYSTEMA. Ninpo Taijutsu is better if one wants to completely immerse himself in warrior philosophy. But while training Taijutsu, I quit and went with my southern mantis instructor because of his absolutely phenomenal ability to apply his art. Ultimately, the system being used isn't half as important as who is doing the using. Also, I'm getting good enough at mine that it is time to move on.

   By stan (Unregistered Guest) on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 11:28 pm: Edit Post


Are you a Hollywood Marine or PI Marine?

   By chris hein on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 06:09 am: Edit Post

Jesus Chris (I wanted to say it one more time) the bullshit gets pretty deep sometimes. I think alot of my students now think that I'm the neatist guy on the planet. Problem is they are wrong, everyone lose's no one is super man, and if you don't know as much as your teacher, sure he seems like God, but he's not. You should worrie about you, and you alone, what can you do, what will happen if some mean dude attacks you, your teacher never factors into what happens when YOU get punched in the face.

   By Jack Vincent (Unregistered Guest) on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 12:00 pm: Edit Post

Yeah Chris - me me me mentality - the orange curtain code - you make my overall point brilliantly (need of personal development (are a bullshido fan?). Are you losing it buddy?

Losses - if you have the competition mindset of course you can lose. I have never lost. NEVER.

   By Enforcer on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 06:10 am: Edit Post

according to these guys martial art skills in the military are not needed anymore and just because nobody can fight today with a style doesnt mean it sucks?;action=display;num=1117675409

   By stan (Unregistered Guest) on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 12:20 pm: Edit Post


the military does not teach martial arts skill. The basic concepts are more self preservation/protection. It is mainly special groups to whom these are taught while the regular forces are given jsut an overview.

a. How to overpower a sentry
b. How to protect against an armlock.

Prior to the 70's, most rifles had a bayonet and the tactics approcimated that of a staff or spear and this training was more widespread

The regular soldier may not need to be aware but it is taught as an awareness with perhaps a day programme. Can only reference US Marine Corps, not sure about army.

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