Hey Tim, I was just wondering who you thought were some of today's highely skilled Internal Martial Artist (that you have studied with and have not studied with). Thanx very much

Dan

dear tim

how do you view san soo in todays martial arts
with all grappling arts that are around.
have seen your tape on combat throws, would like to get one , but live and studdy kung fu san soo
in London England UK. barry.

Dan,
I can only comment on teachers I've studied with. Of those still living, Luo Dexiu and Lin Ahlong are two of the best.

Barry,
San Soo primarily teaches self-defense against untrained opponents.

Tim,
On your biography page, you're standing next to Lin Ahlong while holding a trophy. If you don't mind me asking, what was the trophy for?

thanks,
Dave C.

I like the wording "self-defense against untrained opponets." I wish most people got that. Most martial arts are designed to teach you to pound a dude who dosent have much skill, which is neat.... till you meet a dude who knows something.

Dave,
That was for a demonstration in Taipei city, not fighting.

Chris, what would he know if it isn't martial arts?

A good lawyer ?

A good martial artist, like Tim, has theoretical knowledge, real technical skill, superb conditioning and a wide experience of training under a variety of conditions with a variety of skillful opponents.

By contrast, the average modern martial arts practitioner can do forms and/or two-person training methods but has never been hit enough to learn to get beyond that stressor; has never trained against spontaneous attacks; and has never learned effectively to attack as he defends and vice-versa.

By the way, those who have never had any training are often better at fighting than those who study self-defense. Why do martial artists often assume that they will have an automatic advantage over someone whose idea of recreation on weekends is to get into real scraps?

Answer: wishfull thinking and the sterile reality of only training with their peers.

All true, Michael, and nicely put.

Chris H. In the late 1800s there was a fellow in Okinawa who was widely considered to be the best fighter on the island. Besides lamenting about the decline of the fighting systems into sports, he reportedly stated that karate was not for use on the battlefield nor was it something that a skilled fighter would use. Rather,it was intended for the 'average' person to be able to use against 'untrained' attackers.

Michael, that is all too often true. In our modern, supposedly peaceful, society, wannabe "warriors" stay forever in the realm of training and theory, never risking life and limb to progress to the next level. This is not meant in any way to detract from the time, effort and sacrifices of sportsmen, nor is it meant to glorify illegal brutality or mindless, unnecessary risk taking. It is simply a statement of fact.

I think the point I was getting at was. That the systems themselves are designed to deal with a person who has no idea of what is happening in a fight. Like San soo's flailing strikes. Those things are an awesome way to hit a dude who has never been hit. You just keep charging at him, and pounding him down. However If you used this style of attack on a amateur boxer, he will ride it out, cover up, and wait for a clean shot. His strikes will be clean and with purpose, something most san soo only practitioners will not be used to. Thus giving the boxer (someone trained to fight others with training) the advantage.
Most martial arts are predicated on this same Idea of fighting people who don't typically fight. Like Goju's idea of body conditioning. The idea there is that, if I spend my time making my body super hard, and you try and fight me, I will hurt you more then you will me, cause you don't train to make your body hard all day. These ideas are a different approach then "sport" martial arts take. Sport martial artists train to fight someone with skills and size equal to there own. Bjj guys, boxers muy thai, all learn to "fight". I for one believe that in a self defense situation it's better to train to fight another guy who has the ability to fight, because those skills will more easily translate to fight someone less competent then your self.

Correction, I ment Wai-chi Ryu Karate not Goju Ryu.

I'd prefer to be able to take on whatever comes. The 2 worst poundings I ever recieved were from people so inexperienced that I was almost lost at the utterly stupid things they sent my way.

I'm starting to dislike generalizations about such things, but Uechi-ryu (sp.) IS a sport (a "do" for moving zen meditation) if one's definition of traditional refers to battlefield arts. Most okinawan karate styles are heavily influenced by "village" kung fu, southern styles that were mostly looked down upon as brawling arts for peasants by practitioners of northern styles who were usually military men. Ironically, after the introduction of firearms to warfare in China, the northern arts went into decline, often turning into acrobatics while the rise of revolutionary bands led to evolution of the southern styles. Certain gangs today still use these arts for real against other "trained" fighters. Though highly unlikely that we would meet up with such in our modern western culture, I prefer to train for the worst case scenario, not the assumption that the worst I will face is some martial athlete. At any rate, all this is just a variation of the "my style is better" argument. Bottom line, as good as some types of tournament training can be, for a combat art to develop along with the passage of time, it must be used for combat. That development won't happen in a ring. If you're interested, I think I have a link to a page that discusses the difference between Uechi as it was originally practiced and the way it is today.

I'm not saying that ring fighting is all there is in the world, or that if you truely want to be awesome you will study sport martial arts. I do know that wareing pajamas and talking about "my sensei can walk through fire, shitting gold and beat up six nazi's", wont make ME a better fighter. Competitive martial arts will teach you what it's like to deal with someone who is resisting, and help you develop mental, and physical toughness (things nessisary for fighing). I'm not saying that my style, or your style anything. Just that differnt styles are designed to do differnt things.

The great thing about San Soo as taught by Grand Master Woo was that he, in an inbetween the lines way, encouaged street fighting. Maybe not directly with specific words, but I bet that his school turned out more fighter, people that fight with no net, than anyother school in history. And to say who is going to win every time is rediculos. As situations change, winners, if you belive in that word, change. Real fighting envolves everything and anything you or someone you know can get there hands on. Sport fighting is just that, sport fighting. The sterile atmosphere of the ring or dojo is no substitue for real life. Like Miamoto said. Victory in sport is insignificant. Victory in life is significant. Living is about strategy, and fighting techneque is a small and insubstancial part of life.

By the way, the students that diddnīt get the essence of san soo where the ones who didnīt fight or didnīt like to fight. Someone who likes fighting and knows san soo will win the fight before it has begun. Many KFSS masters have shunned the art for that reason - to really know it you have to fly with no net. Sorry sports guys ..

How quickly people forget, we are headed into anouther dark age I see....

Jack,
Define sport fighting and how much of it have you done?

Do you know why there are rules in the ring?

Are you suggesting people run around and start street fights to test their skills and hurt people and also run the risk of a criminal record?

Jack,

If victory in sport is insignificant... why are the Olympics and Boxing and Pride/UFC so popular?

Isn't rising to victory amoung others who dedicate their lives to being the best at your 'sport' significant?

As for Grand Master Woo encouraging street fighting, I'd have to ask somone who studied closely with Jimmy Woo for years.... hey Tim,
Did Jimmy Woo ever encourage street fighting?

Shane