sorry, I'm an idiot, I just re-read through
the entire thread and realized Tim hasn't been
asked anything since his post on April, 23rd.

I apologize for being a dweeb.
I've been having a particularly bad week.

Hey BaldingOldFart that's OK. Apparently Tim doesn't speak unless spoken to. Wish his cult members would observe similar restraint.

Cool Hand Luke Fake,

Quit using my handle lest I rip an old rotten egg fart in your face.

Neither of you guys plays the role very well. Especially the guy who claims to be the "real" Cool Hand Luke.

Tim,

Hi Tim, I would like to purchase your new grappling book. When and where will your book be available for sale. (Next question) Will you ever produce your own video series for BaGua or Jiu Jitsu?
And finally, Your San Soo background, with all of the years and training you invested into San Soo, would you equate San Soo as being basic elementary fundamentals compared to the other Arts you went on to practice. What do you feel the value was of your San Soo training? Is San Soo basically good for the average layperson (8 to 5'er) so that he can handle his drunk uncle at family get togethers or is it much more? (your thoughts please)The Arts you have studied appear to be much more complex. Thank you.

Rtdee;
Tim is in New Mexico conducting a seminar. I moved your question under the "San Soo" subtopic. He will answer your question within a week.
Go to the Jiu Jitsu topic on the main board. There is a subtopic called Passing the Guard by Edward Beneville and Tim Cartmell. This should answer your question on his new book.

Rtdee,
The "Passing the Guard" book will be available for sale in about a month (it's at the printers now). You can order it through the book's website, look on the links page.

In regards to your questions on San Soo; I study a variety of arts because my personal opinion is that no single art is complete in itself. All of the arts have good things to offer if you are dedicated to training and find a good teacher. The most important thing is to understand what you want to get out of the training to begin with, then you can make informed decisions on which art to study.

Thank you for your response.

I posted a question to Tim that he felt was unable to answer. Now I can't find the second response. Sorry for being the idiot, but its my first time on this board. I asked questions about San Soo.

D. Hunter;
This thread is the San Soo subtopic.

I've found it difficult to get any info on San Soo myself. Just an impression but does Tim distance himself from the art or does he just prefer not to deal with other instructors of the art who are offended at his continuing to seek and learn more arts to add to his own tool bag. The supporters of San Soo are fanatical(I mean enthusiastic, nothing crazy) in supporting the art and the late Grandmaster Jimmy Woo.

I read severl years ago that there were several factions who were at odds for whatever reason as occurs when a leader of a style passes and unfortunately all types of antagonism often follows, even amongst former colleagues.

I would like to hear more of Tim's impressions of San Soo as well as anyone else's who has knowledge of it.

Thanks.

KUNG FU SAN SOO IS MOST EFFECTIVE IF YOU TRAIN IN A VERY BRUTALLY PHYSICAL AND REALISTIC MINDSET. I WAS TRAINED BY MR.FRANK WOOLSEY,A GREAT AND EXPERIENCED FIGHTER. MY OTHER TEACHERS WERE TED SIAS,STEVE HOWELL, DAVE SWORD, BILL HULSEY, RON BRADBURN,ALL FIGHTERS OF EXCEPTIONAL ABILITY. THESE MEN WERE ALSO TRAINED BY MR WOOLSEY. SOME OF MY PEERS WERE ERNIE ARMSTRONG,DENNIS KIRBY,BRUCE NETTLES,RICK GRAHAM,AND MANY OTHERS.NONE OF THE ABOVE MENTIONED MEN ARE ANYONE TO TAKE LIGHTLY,UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO FACE DEATH. ANYONE EXPOUNDING ON THE EFFECTIVENESS ON SAN SOO ,AND YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE, WHO WERE NEVER WILLING TO TRAIN AT THE LEVEL OF INTENSITY AND RISK TO INJURY THAT IS EXPECTED OF ANY REAL FIGHTER,SHOULD STOP DISCUSSING WHAT THEY HAVE NO TRUE UNDERSTANDING.ALL REAL FIGHTERS KNOW YOU WILL FIGHT LIKE YOU TRAIN. MR.JIMMY H. WOO,GAVE US A SYSTEM OF COMBAT PERFECTED ON THE FIELD OF BATTLE. THERE IS NO GREATER ACID TEST.

What field of battle is that?

It doesn't matter what you think this men can do or have claimed to have done.

It only matters what you can do and what you have done.

Please tell us all the battles and battlefields on which KFSS allowed it's practicioners to win the day. Can you dodge bullets with KFSS?
Please enlighten me.

Mike,

easy there, lil fella.

1- take a deep breath.
2- turn off the 'all caps' button (or remove your pinky from the 'shift' key once in a while)
3- press "enter" once in a while.
4- Expound means to explain.

So, are you intending to yell (in run-on sentences) at the folks who try to explain Kung Fu San Soo?

and... are you implying that if one of your fellow students made a joke, and someone laughted, they'd risk death? (and by risking death.. do you mean pre-mature death- or the death we all face as mortals?)


Bob#2
(talking to you)

HEY MIKE,

Here is the only film on the internet of a San Soo guy that has fought for real (field of battle).

A San Soo black belt vs a mma sport fighter.

http://bullshido.net/modules.php?name=Links&file=viewlinkinfo&id=44

i remember when I found the caps lock button... those were 'the salad days'...

oh yeah

Mike,

It is a completely different deal here. You are of the older non computer literate generation (like me). Most likely, you, like me, have many injuries from street fighting or the military. Doesn’t allow your pinky to work well when it’s been busted up a few times (you know that capitalization thing). And I know the smart asses that have never been seriously hurt in a fighting competition (which as Lin thinks is on a matt. Boy Lin you have no idea of a battle field if you call that one. Back to your video games) will say “ha, if you crossed trained you would never get your ass kicked.

Well the truth is plain and simple if they really fought in the street they could not escape getting there ass kicked. If you like to fight for real you will be hit, and you will get hurt. Sorry all you pretty boy saved-by-the-tap-out" Tournament fighters.

For the old guard that used to cruise Bellflower boulevard and later Whittier blvd, who fought on Studebaker road by that old hall that was the weekend night club, you know the place where you went to fight on the weekends. Well this generation has no idea what it was like. You ate reds, you fought. You went to high school, you fought, you wore colors (biker insignias), you fought. You dealt drugs, you fought. Your kid brother was picked on, you fought. Some chick mouthed off to you, you punched her boyfriend and if she kept going, you punched her. You went to Jail – you fought a lot.

These guys think tournament fighting is real fighting! They think email conversation and chat rooms are real relationships. ••••, they date over the internet. Can you imagine the challenge of that? The fact is these guys Challenge themselves in very physical matches that they like to think of as real fighting, battlefield stuff. I bet of the hundred or so guys I knew at Jimmy’s at least 25% had been in 20 fights and another 50% had been in 10 or more. The bent nosed broken arm, black eye parade was endless. They wore them as badges, a right of passage. If you didn’t fight in the street you were a punk. Period.

Big problem here. Their tournament matches have rules – every single one of them. And the biggest rule is that you show up at a time and place. There is no spontaneity. It is all set up, just like the rule laden society they live in (I live in a foreign country most of the time so I have the luxury of saying “they.” Hey it way more dangerous here but the chicks alone are worth it, and then there is that tax things, but you good little citizens just keep on funding that war effort and the 3 dollar gas).

Hey everybody, we are going to have a fight on Whittier blvd at 4 pm on Thursday night and there are going to be referees, cameras, and girls to impress. Nobody I know in the 60’s and 70’s would show up for this manly man parade.

Mike, these people do not fight for real. I have not heard one of them speak about anything more than an altercation in their uncle’s backyard or they had to hit somebody once.

I taught KFSS semi privately and I would never accept anyone who was immature because I enjoyed teaching a select group of men how, when and why to fight. If they were not bouncers or cops (my top black was a bouncer at a great beach bar for almost seven years. Talk about comps, I ate and drank for free every night I was there, why I caught one of my enemies in a planned ambush in the head, he said they had to close the bathroom for the night to clean up all the blood, he left unconscious in the ambulance, well lacerated from me ramming his head and face into al those shiny and sharp things the bathroom is so conveniently outfitted with) or in the military or basic bad asses that I thought could and would pull the trigger I had no interest in teaching them.

I never advertised, like Jimmy, and you had to be a referral and I only taught half the people that asked and dismissed the other 25% after a few months. They referred to me as Attila the Hun. Hey, I wasn't doing it for the money and I didn’t want those pretty boys contaminating the core group of men that I was training to have the ability and the psychological acceptance to kill.

Yes, you all, take another man’s life. That was the base of my teachings. Killing. In a street fight in TJ you better either maim, kill or show the intent, especially if most of the people there are of different color.


Again these are different times, actually better times, and different cast of characters. You people are lucky as long as you do not have to defend yourselves from the government. But of course, that will never happen. What has history taught you?


However, if I had to go into battle, street fight, home invasion, bail enforcement, rival gang attack or jail crew, I would want those guys from Woosley’s and Jimmy’s. Those people learned what I learned as a kid in New York - the fun starts when the guy starts crying about the lock out. With these people, you just tap and you’re free, then it’s all hugs and kisses.

In the street, you wake up to serious dental bills and if you didn’t have the money, you wore partial like my front teeth. Hey, you get used to them and I know you cute kids are going to say; wow if you crossed trained you would have your real teeth. Aw, bullshit. I fought my ass off, I rode to be wild, I was at Altamont and cruising TPC and El Monte in low riders before most of you people were born.


This country lacks outlaws therefore, they lack fighters. Hey, this crew here might be the best technical fighters on the planet. But do they have the guts to fight in the street? Do they like it? You must like it to do it. I don’t think so. What do they have to fight for, most of them have been their parents little Hitler’s – the family dictators. There martial art training is a search for earned respect, not the apple of mommy’s eye type.


I can hear them now. “Oh what, fight in the street – we do not have to do that we have mats with rules and reffs and we announce when we are going to fight.” But a real fight has a reason; you are usually taking something intrinsic for your effort. These people do not have the balls to go to jail. What break the sacred law? They are socially neutered, I bet most where Dockers and their women wear the leather.


It aint the techniques, it’s the person that is applying them and why they are doing it that makes the difference. When the •••• hits the fan, all you tournament fighters who most have probably never owned let alone shot a gun are going to go running to the outlaws for protection. When all the pussy liberals succeed in taking away the guns, they have already made women into men and men into women, and the government clamps down, you are going to want a real militia and this fight-for-video-glory crap is going to take the decisive test.


God bless the Outlaws, there was a person named Jimmy who for a long while in his life was one. But the Docker crowd wouldn’t understand that. About the only redeeming feature this generation has when it comes to tribes, gangs and brotherhood are the surfers. They are about the only white people I know that will still fight in the street, at least on the beach.

So lets here it from the peanut gallery in all your tournament glory and try to back it up with some experience, not just the same old I obey the rules crap. Say something or better yet do something, beter yet stand for something before you die. Hey Pig Alley, what have you done.

Oh and Lin (are you a boy?) I guess there where many bullets flying on that mat.

Hey, boob # 2, I remember you and I think you would have a lil more courtesy if you had to speak to Mr. Mike’s face.

And Jason’s peanut gallery crack was powerful.

Hello Mr. Jack,

Yes I am a boy.

Great stories! Are they true?
It seems you try very hard to make people believe you are a tough guy. I know many real tough guys where I am from,, they don't talk as much as you do.

The problem with the internet is the issue of anonymity: it's all summed up by the photo floating around the ether in which a hideously fat, naked guy is sitting intently in front of a monitor as he types and the caption beneath it reads "The Problem with Internet Dating".

Almost as bad with these martial arts forums, in terms of having serious discussions ...