• Archive through January 23, 2007 January 23 - 05:29 pm [20]

Hi Chris,

I mentioned Tomiki Aikido as an option for applicable Aikido because my personal experience with self-described Tomiki teachers has been good. They were very application oriented and had an obvious Judo influence on their Aikido. I agree that straight Judo might be a better choice, but I was working from the idea of "If you want to study Aikido then you should look for."

Sorry for the Dramatic flare.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGJCl6IS_xQ

Awsome, I love watching your Aikido clips, Chris. Looking forward to seeing whatever else you put up.

Craig

Chris is an innovator!

The other instructor at our school, Michael Varin should get some credit too. It's not really an innovation. I've heard you (Ventura) talk about stuff like this before also. It's just that most Aikidoka are scared to get their hakama mussed.

I'll take the compliment just the same though, thanks.

Well, credit and thanks to Michael Varin also. Great stuff.

I like to keep the pleats on my hakama fresh and crisp.

Hahaha. So that's why it's nicely folded put away, while you are training hard!

I'll pass your compliments on to Michael, Craig, thanks.

Sorry to throw my two cents in to late in the game. But I took Aikido for six years and still return to my school whenever I visit home. I think the technical "glitch" with Aikido is that uke is giving one committed attack and is holding on at all costs. If I was just trying to attack someone and I felt them pull away or start some weird swirling motion, I'd let go! But with that idea that I had to hold on in mind, I had no choice but to fall or tap out if the technique was done correctly. But even that stuff is done at the early stages. I think most Aikido schools do a lot of free attack randori, especially after hours, to keep it real. I know we did.

Chris, that looks awesome!

Stephen,
What you are saying is a major problem that I had with Aikido for years myself. "Why wouldn't i let go" and "Why would I come in so committed".

These questions frustrated me for years. However I believe the answer is to understand what the syllabus of Aikido is trying to accomplish.

Boxers never come in completely committed, and seldom do wrestlers. The reason they don't is simple, if you over commit it's more likely you'll be taken down. This is a VERY sound strategy for unarmed fighting (that's why it's so common). Yet Aikido doesn't seem to have many answers for this type of attack.

The reason is the techniques of Aikido were never meant to be used unarmed. I can't be timid when facing a knife (or stick gun etc.). The more time I spend that I'm not either running away, or directly engaging is time I'm being severely cut. I can't play a boxers game with a knife. I have to stay out of range and then come in full force, even if I get cut on the way in, it safer to continue my attack then it is to pull back (and get cut again), unless I'm running away.

Most of the techniques are set up from the Idea of nage (the one doing the techniques) to be armed. Seeing them unarmed is confusing (trust me it confused me for years). When all this wrist twisting and "weird swirling motion" is happening, you have to understand the guy doing it is armed. If you simply "let go" you get cut. The reason you are holding the hand is because it's armed.


Realizing what the syllabus of Aikido is meant to do will set you free. Once you understand how the techniques were meant to work, you can drill them, and develop them.

Thanks, Chris. Yeah, the discussion of it being a weapons based art does answer some questions! thanks for your insights. We used to play around with boxing type attacks as well, but nage's success really depended on the speed and skill of person, rather than specific techniques used to counter that type of stuff.

I'm an East Coast guy, but I'll give you a ring if I'm ever in your area. The way you guys scrap makes me homesick!

I agree with Chris, however, your hand is a weapon. I say this because we all use our hands in order to manipulate objects i.e. tools, eating utensils, traditional weapons etc. We, as Martial Artists, must view our hands differently than the rest of society. The tips of our fingers are points. The edges of our hands are lines. Intersecting lines are a surface what most of us refer to as a palm. Draw a line from the tip of your index finger to the tip of your thumb and make a fist and you have a spiral not a circle a spiral, thus the ability to manipulate objects.

Aikido is a weapons oriented system dealing with the primary weapons their opponents has, their hands.

Aikido is designed to deal with objects that are generally sharper then the edge of my hand.

It does not matter how sharp or dull the object is they still have to use their hands.

Yeah, but the hand positioning and the vocabulary of techniques indicates that the hand is holding something. That's why all the wrist grabs, and the spins meant to avoid the vertical or diagonal cutting. Of course, a hand is a great weapon, but it can't slice my skin and sever my muscle with a touch or a slight brushing movement like a sword can. Those things are sharp!

Still the sharp weapon will not cut you by itself the hand controls it.

I had heard the Aikido prefers to move after the attacker is fully commited to the attack. I wonder how well it can be used against more 'guarded' offenses.

Yes, but your hand isn't three feet long, razor sharp and doesn't have a foot long handle with a guard on it. Your hand can't be taken away from you and stuck in you. Weapons are a whole different thing.

Mark,
Not very well. But that is what the weapon is for.

Hi Chris and all,

Here is a clip I found of some Tanto randori from a couple of Tomiki guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-0bjAFgIZ8

So Chris, from your perspective every technique that begins from a strike implys a weapon in the hand of the striker and every technique that begins with a wrist grab implys a weapon in the hand of the person being grabbed... right?

Thanks,
Richard

Bob King and Jeff Davidson are on to some good stuff.

"So Chris, from your perspective every technique that begins from a strike implys a weapon in the hand of the striker and every technique that begins with a wrist grab implys a weapon in the hand of the person being grabbed... right?"

Id say thats a simplistic way of saying what I'm getting at, yes.

Hi Chris,

I just wanted to make sure I understood who was supposed to have the weapon in your thinking. I don't really think Bob King and Jeff Davidson are doing anything unique. Tomiki Aikido has competitions based on Tanto Randori, so this kind of training is pretty common in the majority of mainstream Tomiki schools.

It seems Kenji Tomiki must have had similar views on the importance of weapons since he apparently decided Tanto Randori represented the best approach to demonstrate/judge proper Aikido execution.

Thanks,
Richard

For anyone not familiar with Tomiki Aikido check out the Shodokan USA website http://www.tomiki.org/

Mr. King and Mr. Davidson, are doing more then just traditional Tomiki randori. They have other clips, they are trying to brake down and understand Aikido by using resistance. It's not anything amazing, but it's honest, and I am always excited to see Aiki guys using resistance.

I have a theory that Kenji Tomiki was a pretty smart fellow. I think he had figured out lots of what most modern Aikidoka today are missing. But I think tomiki Aikido went a little astray. I also believe that modern tomiki is heading in a bad direction and starting to do less and less shiai (free practice).

As far as what I believe goes, I think tomiki/shodokan is the best form of Aikido, but still lacks a basic understanding as to what Aikidos syllabus is really trying to do.

A few more clips for your viewing pleasure.

Same drill you've seen before, but these are nice because you can get and idea of the difference between more and less experience, and also how my students are coming along. None of the guys in the clips have been with us for more then a year, and none of them have had resistive martial art training before us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niWImeNzUbE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlGST3nR8WY

Nice.

What we've been up to the last month or so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf3nh1eVjjM

Good training.

Always a refreshing change from the usual guys in hakamas posing that is passed off as a demonstration of "technique."

What we've been up to lately...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe1xCP0Wr6Y