Wing Chun in Russia

Tim's Discussion Board: Martial Arts - Miscellaneous: Wing Chun in Russia
   By Backarcher on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 01:15 am: Edit Post

I like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id-UIcxMJNQ&feature=related


   By Tim on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 01:31 pm: Edit Post

Nice to see realistic training in CMA.

Interesting to see how fast Wing Chun fighters clinch and go to the ground.


   By Backarcher on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 03:00 pm: Edit Post

"...Interesting to see how fast Wing Chun fighters clinch and go to the ground."

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)


   By Jason M. Struck on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 05:37 pm: Edit Post

at it's worst moments... a silly girly slap fight. At it's best, reminded me of footage of the sparring at Shen Wu.

The only things that seemed fluid and effective were the takedowns followed by some sort of control and striking.


   By Willis on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 03:17 pm: Edit Post

The problem with what passes as "wing chun" is that most of it 95% of it is watered down garbage. Most people that learned from Yip Man did not complete the system. His best disciples are very low key and don't/didn't advertise. The big "chain" wing chun/wing tsun schools are horrible/flailing slap fighting. Horrible footwork. It's easy to put down wing chun due to what's out there. If you want to know about real wing chun visit Gary Lam, he is in S. Cal. would be funny to see someone try to grapple with him. Real wing chun is hard to find.


   By Backarcher on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 05:10 pm: Edit Post

"...would be funny to see someone try to grapple with him. Real wing chun is hard to find."

That's the cool thing about MMA. You see guys who are "professionally" trained strikers, who workout daily with "real" highly trained wrestlers...and they still get taken down in a fight.


   By Willis on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 05:24 pm: Edit Post

A High level wing chun player that I am talking about can deal with grappling. Because high level wing chun such that disciples (not just "students" )of Wong Shun Leung and some of the elders of wing chun teach is that it's not just a "striking" art. I am not trying to say it is "superior" to wrestling or MMA. But it does bother me when some jokers advertise themselves as wing chun mma and it's nothing like what I've experienced and seen before. All styles have their strong points/weak points. Good wing chun is not for the ring. It's for the 30 second bar fight/street fight where you have to worry about multiple attackers, where u don't want to hold on to your opponent and/or go to the ground. It wouldn't work in a MMA ring: where you have plenty of space to move around, time to set up or tapes to review your next opponents, a soft floor to fall on to and to place your knees on to "shoot" etc. Anyhow it's probably pointless to argue about as most haven't ever been exposed to the real thing. It's not something that can be easily explained, only experienced at the hands of a high level practitioner. And there are less than a handful in N. America at that level.


   By Enforcer on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 07:15 pm: Edit Post

yea but how realistic is it when it sonly like half speed or force? A real fight is so intense, fast and in ur face even mma doesnt rpepare for it too well since mma fighters are cocious even in matches, they dont have the hatred and anger for their opponent.


   By Enforcer on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 - 07:16 pm: Edit Post

"The only things that seemed fluid and effective were the takedowns followed by some sort of control and striking."

have u ever seen prodigal son or warriors two? if wing chun can be trained like that or they use the mvoements and tehcniques form those movies or invent a new style it would be really effective.


   By Backarcher on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 12:07 am: Edit Post

"...It's for the 30 second bar fight/street fight where you have to worry about multiple attackers, where u don't want to hold on to your opponent and/or go to the ground."

Agree with that statement.

But you said, "...would be funny to see someone try to grapple with him. Real wing chun is hard to find."


   By jean paul khoi pease on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 02:23 pm: Edit Post

I've seen something like this from some guys in estonia, except they were going at breakneck speed.

all the fights still went to the ground.

every time I hear some dilznip talk about how wing chun can obliterate a person in a blink of an eye, they are talking about something that has never happened in the history of man.

if a wing chun person had the ability to wipe out a majority of his opponents as WC people claim, that wing chunner would be the most succesful fighter of all time, regardless of style.

so where is this mystery man.

And if you want to claim the "real world violence" BS, every other day there is something on TV featuring a prison riot or fight.

watch those fights and all you see is basically the crude fundamentals for MMA (and blade arts).

the best wing chun guys i know close the gap, stick, take you down and finish with submission or strikes.

oh wait minute, thats MMA.


   By Jason M. Struck on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 06:01 pm: Edit Post

the best wing chun guys I know signed up for BJJ classes 5+ years ago.


   By jean paul khoi pease on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 08:29 pm: Edit Post

WORD!

I remember when the best WC guy I knew started training with megaton diaz, it was over 5 years ago too.

what a coincidence!


   By Enforcer on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 09:52 pm: Edit Post

so its not like internal martial art people esp tai chi people can fight their way out of a paper bag or beat them, look at that emptyflower forum, its full of nutjobs and ppl who think theyre the shet for learning those styles who never post sparring vids or at least good ones only guys doing forms.


   By Willis on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 01:13 am: Edit Post

I feel any would have a bad time dealing with this. ignoring the first guy, the real deal steps in at about one minute into the clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84bxXXhnB_I&feature=related


   By Backarcher on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 01:50 am: Edit Post

How does he react after taking a punch?

Has he ever taken a punch?

Does he know who he is as a fighter after taking a punch?

Not to be disrespectful, but this is where many miss the boat when it comes to fighting. It's not a one way street. In "fantasyland" it is, but reality is ugly and it hits back.


   By Willis on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 07:56 am: Edit Post

Yes he is a fighter as well. He also fought in muay thai, so i believe he can take a punch.


   By Backarcher on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 04:32 pm: Edit Post

If he has fought Muay Thai, I'm sure he knows.


   By edmund kim on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 05:04 am: Edit Post

Willis, let's put it this way. Who would you rather take on the "street", Bas Rutten, or Gary Lam?


   By Jason M. Struck on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 02:37 pm: Edit Post

i would get so irritated if someone kept slapping me like that.


   By Richard S. on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 11:00 am: Edit Post

Most of the Wing Chun people I have talked to think Prodigal Son is the best cinematic representation of real wing chun. The Magnificent Butcher is another real good one. Sammo Hung acts in and directed both of them and he set high standards for the kung fu action.


   By jean paul khoi pease on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 11:19 am: Edit Post

i've seen gary lam demo and i've met him at a tournament/seminar convention.

not once did he engage his students or show any of us how to engage an opponent who wasn't standing directly in front of him not defending himself.

when i asked him about how to close the gap to get to wing chun range he just laughed and said not to worry.

then later at the banquet he had two of his students stand next to him like henchmen while he ate.

WEIRD!

That's my Gary Lam experience.

side note: Wong Shun Leung's grandson was one of my students for a while


   By Richard S. on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 10:41 am: Edit Post

"the best wing chun guys I know signed up for BJJ classes 5+ years ago."

Wasn't that seminar incident with GM Cheung and Emin Boztepe six or seven years ago? (Boztepe knocked Cheung down with a football tackle to prove he couldn't grapple or some such silliness.) Anti-Grappling has been a catchy term in wing chun circles ever since :-)
Maybe that is when some of the broader minded sought out BJJ :-)


   By Willis on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 01:34 pm: Edit Post

Jean Paul,

What's weird is that you are passing judgement on Gary WITHOUT EVEN 'touching hands" with him!

So you were not satisfied with the "answer" he gave you at a SEMINAR? Why not "spar" with him and find out?

WEIRDER yet is that Wong Shun Leung's GRANDSON was your student? Was he a baby then? Wong Shun Leungs son is in Hong Kong, and is in his mid twenties or early 30's at this time. So his grandson (if he has one) is most likely a child at this moment. WEIRD that with all the high quality wing chun availble from Wong's own lineage holders and Elders in Hong Kong right now that he would want to learn from some dude teaching in Long Beach. WEIRD.


Then again maybe its just a WEIRD attempt at MARKETING to say you taught Wong Shun Leung's GRANDSON! WEIRD!!


   By jean paul khoi pease on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 02:24 pm: Edit Post

hey you know what smart guy, i was wrong. i'm not going to give you the guy's name but here is the email he sent me when he first made contact. he's not the grandson, he's the nephew.

"I have learned Wing Chun long time ago. My uncle is Wong Shun Leung (my father older sister husband, who passed away a while ago), and when I was a little kid in Hong Kong I always played with my cousins climbing on the wooden dummy."

and dude i just wanted to know how to close the gap, if sparring with him would give me an answer then great! but he just told me not to worry.

my guess was that he probably uses his thai boxing to close the gap, but he didnt want to say so at a wing chun seminar.

i didnt pass judgment on his wing chun since he didnt give me any info to pass judgment on. and your answer is basically challenge him on the spot.

i just thought the thing with the two students standing next to him was peculiar, and don't act like it isn't.

and by the way the reason he came to me was the same reason he first started out with gary lam.

we both have tournament experience. he stopped going to gary because of distance and then he stopped coming to me because our training factility owners were really restrictive, so i don't blame him.


you are awfully testy bro. do you usually just challenge teachers on the spot when they give you cryptic answers?

you know the chinese language is the most contextual language on the planet. don't you think maybe, just maybe there is a teeny, teeny, probability that sometimes when two humans converse ideas aren't conveyed clearly.

maybe, just maybe?

or maybe your right and i'm just some out to bad mouth your guy and market my gym.

i'll try not to rely on my own skill and ability since i can do so much better marketing myself on discussion boards read by less than 20 people a day.


chill out willis


   By Enforcer on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 07:36 pm: Edit Post

well I have done boxing for a long time and I still cant take a punch. Its not that I get knocked out but if I get hit real hard my head shakes and I almsot egt knocked out or if I get hit in the nose my eyes water, and these instances are esp case with small gloves. Taking a punch its something ur born with, not really something u can train or condition. There is hardly any muscle in ur face mostly bone so u cant really build it up, and most ppl will sucker punch u anyway.


   By Richard S. on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 12:42 pm: Edit Post

In my opinion, learning to take a punch is a bad term/phrase. You can not do anything about a physiological reflex for your eyes to water when you are hit in the nose. What you can do is train your footwork, parries, and head movement to try and avoid contact and minimize impact when their is contact. And we are all probably already doing that as martial artists :-)


   By Enforcer on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 11:28 pm: Edit Post

but if your talking about streetfights its different cause most ppl will either cheap shot you or only fight you if they have friends to attack you wiuth anyway.


   By William on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 05:19 pm: Edit Post

More WC

http://www.iviewtube.com/videos/137846/m1-global-tryout-gone-horribly-wrong,-in- depth-interview-with-thiago-silva


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