Liu he ba fa ( Water Boxing)

Tim's Discussion Board: Martial Arts - Miscellaneous: Liu he ba fa ( Water Boxing)
   By jerry spiliotis on Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 04:40 am: Edit Post

bagua bill, its jerry from chicago. have you ever met grandnaster wai lun choi? 130 pounds, 64 years old and no one can get even close to him.he is an unbelievable fighter. I have seen him spar with guys half his age and twice his size. they are no match. his teacher`s theacher was wu yik fan. master wu was one of only 2 peaple that deafeted the founder od y quan master wang.more info at chois teacher studied directly under jiang rong qiao, chu gui ting,han hsing qiao of yquan wich was one of wangs big four will not know what i am talking about till you see choi in action. its unreal.

   By cvp72 on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 12:28 pm: Edit Post

The link should be A mirror site can be found at
Roaring Lion, aka Shi Hou

Has anyone seen this movie? The star, Kam Tung, was a classmate of Grandmaster Choi and Chen Yik Yan was the martial arts director. Let me know if you have access to a good copy of the film or whether it is available in DVD format.

   By Walter T. Joyce Sr. on Monday, June 10, 2002 - 02:15 pm: Edit Post

Have you studied or researched this art at all? If so, could you give your brief overview?
Thank you,
p.s. Apologies if you have already covered this, just point me to where I can read your material.

   By Jan Bloem on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 05:17 pm: Edit Post

Hello everyone,

my name is Jan Bloem and I live in the Netherlands. Although my background lies mainly in Okinawan Goju Ryu, I become more and more interested in the internal martial arts, especially liu he ba fa, since I saw a short video of this system. Can anyone tell me what this style exactly is and if it can be practiced here in europe?


p.s. great site!!

Edit by SysOp - Moved to this thread

   By Ron Panunto on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 12:25 pm: Edit Post

Liu he ba fa translates as six harmonies eight methods boxing. It is also sometimes referred to as "water boxing" and "Hwa Yu Taiji". It is an amalgam of taiji, bagua, and xingyi. It has at least one very long form consisting of a few hundred postures, performed in a taiji like manner, and about a dozen animal forms done like xingyi. There are at least 4 instructional videos that have been published that I know of, but the system is still relatively rare compared to the other internal arts. I don't know if there are any instructors europe, but I would recommend studying taiji (or bagua or xingyi) if you can't locate a LHBF teacher since the principles are all the same.


   By cvp72 on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 09:42 am: Edit Post

A long discussion thread on Water Boxing/Liuhopafa can be found here:

   By k.conor foxx on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 03:20 am: Edit Post

There are multiple questions in this string:
LiuHeBaFa,..water-style,...teachers-good,...teachers-where, other exercises.
The site has a lengthy string about this, unusual due to subject, and rare, as most of the respondants are knowledgable and respectful of each other.
The only approaching complete review, similar to what would be done for DMOZ, appears in a developing site, in progress:
takes an impartial view and tries to include everyone and every diversity on the subject.
As for teachers, Choi, is best available in USA,
in Europe, holland, there is one I have heard of; otherwise import one.
with regards to all

   By qui chu ji (Unregistered Guest) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 07:40 am: Edit Post

I hear this a lot six harmony boxing as a joining of taiji/bagua/xingyi. Was it not created on hua shan by Chen Bo. which would make it older than bagua as taught by Dong Hai Chun and taiji from Chen family village. Does anybody have a lineage of any sort ? Since principles of bagua and taiji are different how would lui he ba fa be the same as principles for either style.

   By River Boy (Unregistered Guest) on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 05:12 am: Edit Post

Hello I practice the Shui Quan (Liu ho ba fa). I know the 12 animal forms as taught by Choi, but the main for I know is from Lian Si Pung, who learnt it from Wu Yik Fan. Has anyone seen both styles of the main form? and can they tell me what are the differences?
My teacher talk to Choi who said the form we practice is not the real thing, but you can see many of the animal forms in it. Does anyone know where there is a video of the Wu yik fan style, or a teacher in China? Thank a lot


   By Xi Feng (Unregistered Guest) on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 06:12 am: Edit Post

Go to Jarek's site
He has an excellent selection of martial arts VCD's and DVD's available no where else.
If Jarek doesn't have it, probably nobody does.
He's told me he's going to be away from Shanghai (out of China) for about four weeks this summer - so ask your questions fast.

   By RDS (Unregistered Guest) on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 11:22 am: Edit Post


There were three distinctive/separate long forms that were taught by Wu Yik Fan during the earlier part of last century. One was "for fun, and profit", one was the "general public" form, and last was the martial form as taught by Choi, Wai Lun. Liang Zi Pang's version of the long form incorporated a considerable amount of taiji, and bagua into the form that he'd learned from Wu Yik Fan. Primarily because his training in Liu Ho Pa Fa was not complete. Wu was not happy about this, and "turned his back" on Liang, but he was Chan Yik Yan's friend who had helped him get established in Hong Kong. Because of this Chan disregarded Wu's instructions to "shut down" Liang. <<shrug>> That's what I've been able to piece together through contacts in/from Hong Kong, Shanghai, Canada, and the United States. If you'd like to see/download several different variations/examples of Liu Ho Pa Fa you can email me at, and we can make arrangements for you to do an FTP upload of the files that I have available.

Best regards,


   By professor jeff (Unregistered Guest) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 07:55 pm: Edit Post

I had been a student of Master Choi, for a short time in Chicago. "Unreal" is an overused term in the martial arts world, but having seen Master Choi up close, I can attest to the fact that it is the only word to describe his movement. He moves with great speed, perfect body mechanics, and a polished grace that one normally only sees in great dancers. not to mention the fact that the power he generates at his size in incredible.

   By Tsuzen5 (Unregistered Guest) on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 12:36 am: Edit Post

To add to the descriptions of Master Choi. No one mentioned yet his wonderful teaching ability. He treats every student with equal attention and investment in his/her potential. He has great patience, yet he instills great discipline and expects much. Not all great fighters are also great teachers.

   By Bernd Hildebrandt (Unregistered Guest) on Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 03:39 am: Edit Post

For Liu He Ba Fa in Germany take a look at


   By Ron (Unregistered Guest) on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 07:38 pm: Edit Post

I am looking for a video I can download of Liu He Ba Fa
Ron Miller

   By robert on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 12:45 pm: Edit Post

watch the little guy fly around.

   By Jason Haynes on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 08:44 am: Edit Post

I never ever thing any good about demos done on smaller people, it means nothing to me.

All demos IMHO should be done on bigger people, then you can have some respect for your martial art and your selfs, and proving that your art works.

A big guy can throw a little guy about without needing to know MAs.

Unless of course your very very big to begin with then it may be hard to find another person of the same size for Demos.

   By robert on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 07:41 pm: Edit Post

Maybe the little guy was his best student, and best fitted for the part? i dont think that a teacher would use an inexperienced student to demonstrate techniques like that.
btw, that guys class used to be held close to where i lived, i was pretty bummed to see that he moved.

   By nomad (Unregistered Guest) on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 06:44 am: Edit Post


check out

   By goer (Unregistered Guest) on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 12:38 pm: Edit Post

quote: "i was always interesed in weapons as a child, but my taekwondo master never showed me..."

not another taekwon do guy... heeeeere we go.

   By texas holdem poker poker strategy (Unregistered Guest) on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 02:16 pm: Edit Post

aristocratic Terpsichore campaigners sparked.Procrustes
serene protocols texas holdem poker tournaments at the golden nugget impaction,unjustly Marvin:defection poker strategy for texas holdem poker stimulant mores Frey texas holdem poker games

   By GoHing on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 02:54 am: Edit Post

This is Wai Lun Choi's new website:

   By R. Drake Sansone on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 07:17 am: Edit Post

Dear Liuhebafa/Liuhopafa (LHBF) brothers and practitioners,

Recently, it has come to our attention that an individual(s) has attempted to cause disharmony and unrest within our peaceful LHBF community.

The individual(s) pretended to be a student from Master Kam Tung's Hong Kong school. On the surface, the individual(s) pretended to actively promote Master Kam Tung's school on various websites and online forums which included:, , the 'LHPF' and 'LHBF' Yahoo Groups, and more. However, he also made a number of suggestive and inflammatory comments against other LHBF practitioners which included Master Choi Wai-Lun.

We are here to clarify the following:

1) Master Kam Tung's school does not know who this individual(s) is, and has no prior knowledge of this individual(s)' activities.

2) Master Kam Tung's school does not approve nor endorse any of the individual(s)' activities.

3) Master Kam Tung's school does not approve nor endorse the content of the webpage:

4) Master Choi Wai-Lun and Master Kam Tung do not approve any statement made, or quoted on their behalf, on any public forums outside of their own websites ( or ).

Master Choi Wai-Lun and Master Kam Tung were both students and very close classmates under the late Grandmaster Chan Yik-Yan. We want nothing but peace and harmony among all fellow LHBF brothers and practitioners. It is our sincere wish that the students of Master Choi Wai-Lun and Master Kam Tung will continue to grow even stronger ties and friendships than ever before. We do not encourage any activity which may disrupt our peace and harmony. Any more of such activity will not cause us any harm, but will only serve to damage the individual(s)' own reputations.

Best wishes to all fellow LHBF brothers and practitioners.
Kindest regards,
Choi Wai-Lun, Kam Tung ,

Add a Message

This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.