Machida vs shogun

Tim's Discussion Board: Martial Arts - Miscellaneous: Machida vs shogun
   By robert on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 04:54 pm: Edit Post

I didnt see it, how was it? Machida won?

   By William on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 06:24 pm: Edit Post

Yes but Machida did not show the same skill he had demostrated in previous fights. Shogun was able to counter Machida and hit him with several unaswered leg kicks. Based on damage done Shogun should have been the wiiner, but the judges gave the fight to Machida. Shogun did not push the pace enough and he paid for it. Machida said he was 100%, but from start something was up and he was not the same fighter, there will be a re match soon for sure.

   By robert on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 - 08:24 pm: Edit Post

Shogun didnt go down eh? Machida better work on his knockout power then. Shogun is a good all around fighter, I think the first time i saw shogun was when he stomped on that guys head. lol

The only time im interested in ufc is when i want to see the jerks get beat up, which doesnt always happen unfortunately. And to watch fighters with actual skill, I've seen enough brawling.

I didnt know bj penn is going to fight diego sanchez, thats going to be pretty cool.

   By William on Wednesday, October 28, 2009 - 09:26 pm: Edit Post

Here are some stats on that fight

   By Jack Rusher on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 04:25 pm: Edit Post

I scored the rounds: draw, Machida, Machida, Rua, Rua -- with Rua doing better as the fight went on. It seems plain to me that if they'd kept fighting Rua would eventually have stopped Machida via attrition.

In the interview afterward, Rua explained that he and his camp spent five months reviewing tape of Machida to prepare their strategy for this fight. It'll be really interesting to see what each fighter brings to the re-match.

   By robert on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 07:54 pm: Edit Post

i was reading an article on the fight and shogun said he did one thousand kicks per training session, or something like that... I always say that the fight will go to the person who trained the hardest 99 percent of the time. I dont think machida was expecting that. Plus, machida came out with a dvd didnt he? he may as well have titled it, "how to fight me". Perhaps he is getting a little too bigheaded about the whole champion thing.

It seems to me like shogun was aiming to keep machida at bay with leg kicks, and who wins a fight with leg kick points??

I feel bad for machida because in an age when traditional martial arts are mocked, he is like the karate martyr, and thats a pretty big burden.

   By Enforcer on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 08:58 pm: Edit Post

what's cool about machida is how unique his style is due to it being a tma while everyone else trains mma and mt he trains karate and mma. He also has some cool stances, and when u watch him train he looks kind of like sun lutang in his book in the sense he's never worried or stressed but taking it easy or enjoying himself with no tension.

   By Steele on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 09:27 pm: Edit Post

Based on the vicious (over)reaction, it's clear that most MMA fighters and fans want Machida to go away forever. Machida represents everything that the MMA world since the rise of Gracie has sought to pronounce dead and impossible: a practitioner of a modified traditional art who has adapted. They are going to keep hating Machida, and root for every opponent Dana White tosses at him.

Joe Rogan's screeching will get louder with every Machida win.

This was a close, hard fought battle that was largely inconclusive, but a fascinating clash of styles and strategies.

Machida went into the fight with a disadvantage, no matter how much he claims otherwise. He had a broken hand, and may not have trained as hard as he could have, and couldn't hit as hard. His movement and timing were off for the night, even before Shogun landed a thing. Shogun was 100%, and he'd devoted a lot of study.

Machida did counter Shogun's heavy leg kicks, with punches to face, and some great combinations that sent Shogun staggering many times. Machida also planted a lot of knees on Shogun. Both of their ribs were red.

Neither fighter was close to being taken down.

The main question comes down to head shots versus the leg kicks, the toll on each fighter, and what might have happened had the fight continued. Most insist that Shogun had the momentum in the end, but there is no way to conclude that definitively. Could Machida have survived more Kyokushin type low kicks, or would have have buckled? Could Machida have found an opening to knock Shogun out, or simply landed enough to win another round?

It reminded me a lot of the Ali-Frazier epics. One man more technical, landing punches, the other physically stronger, the aggressor, the heavier hitter, landing shots lower.

I say this fight should have been a draw. A split decision either way would have been justified. Machida did do enough, I think, to retain the belt on points, but his strategy for the fight was off, whereas Shogun's was working.

(Along the same lines, the Donald Cerrone-Ben Henderson fight should have been a draw, but they gave the decision to the guy who barely survived the submissions.)

I am glad to see that there will be a rematch. I look forward to the adjustments that Machida makes.

Bruce Lee was a genius, but he was wrong to insist that ALL traditionally trained fighters fail to adapt. Most of the MMA world, particularly the Gracie empire, is also wrong to conclude the same.

   By William on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 09:58 pm: Edit Post

Thanks for sharing the info steele, I knew something was up when I saw Machida, a broken hand must have messed his training. I for one enjoy what Machida brings to MMA, for one his ability to avoid damage. Only uneducated fans will critize his style, I will never understand two guys facing each other beating the living out of each other, you can do that without any martial arts training, and you can see that for free at any bar fight.

I will also be extremely interested to see what each fighter will bring to the next fight and even more to see how a healthy Machida will do.


   By Tim on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 09:29 am: Edit Post

"Machida represents everything that the MMA world since the rise of Gracie has sought to pronounce dead and impossible: a practitioner of a modified traditional art who has adapted."

Gracie Jiu Jitsu/BJJ IS a modified traditional art that has adapted. The early dominance of the Gracie JJ fighters proved that only by modifying traditional martial arts could they prove consistently effective in all round, realistic fighting competition. Virtually all successful MMA fighters including Machida have been following the same formula ever since: modify existing traditional arts for realism, cross train in these modified traditional arts to round out your game and you can be successful in MMA.

Machida is a hugely popular MMA fighter. I was at the last UFC. The average fan believed Shogun won the fight because he landed many more blows than Machida and Machida appeared to be on the defensive most of the time. I thought Machida won the fight by a narrow margin.

   By William on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 08:57 pm: Edit Post

For those wanting to watch the fight,


   By Enforcer on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 07:08 pm: Edit Post

tim that's true but a lot of knuckle heads on the net that like to talk trash claim that styles win fights and matter and msot mma gyms only teach muay thai/wrestling/bjj and often mock or make fun of other styles even competing full contact styles like sanda get mocked in many gyms, trust me Ive been in the mt game for a while and see it all the time by practitioners/coaches/die hards in that style.

   By robert on Friday, November 20, 2009 - 01:44 pm: Edit Post

Wow, no ground game in that

Machida fought with a broken right hand? Geez, no wonder he kept circling to the left.. How do you fight with a broken hand... thats crazy.

Shogun can take a hit, either that or he was on meth because he shouldve been knocked out a few times during that fight wtf? lol. He did a good job at keeping machida in the strike zone by preventing him from circling to the left with those right kicks.

Tough fight to score. I think if shogun were sober he wouldve been knocked out.

And i cant lie, shogun was clearly the aggressor and landed like a million leg kicks. Too bad that leg kicks wont win you a fight unless it causes your opponent to submit.

Machida won. Just barely.

Good fight.

They should test the fighters on fight night for illegal drugs.

   By Enforcer on Friday, March 26, 2010 - 04:51 pm: Edit Post

it was weird because joe rogan kept giving shogun credit when they were clearly both hitting each other at the same time and both taking damage. Like Machida would counter and hit his lower leg right after getting hit with a roundhouse.

   By robert on Friday, March 26, 2010 - 05:53 pm: Edit Post

win or lose, im still a huge machida fan, and will continue be regardless of if he loses or wins.

   By Backarcher on Saturday, April 03, 2010 - 12:53 pm: Edit Post

Great observation, Enforcer!

I'm impressed.

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