Is there any significant difference in what and how the Machado Brothers schools and the Carlson Gracie schools teach in BJJ? I was going to go and try them both. Just wondering if anybody had any experience with either approach.

You should try them both. Both will teach good BJJ. The significant difference will be in the individual instructors teaching method and personality.

The Machado's trained at Gracie Barra under Carlos Gracie Jr. Their sport JJ is top notch.

Carlson's guys (in my experience) are also very good. I've had the pleasure of competing against some. Depending on the school, you might get a little bit more no-gi training. But again, it's a matter of personal preference of the instructor.

Good luck in your choice,
Macaco fino

Thanks Macaco. Sounds like good advice.

Hi Tom-
I assume your going to Carlson Gracie's school in West Hollywood and the Machado Brothers in Torrance. Tim's place is just down the road. It would be nice if you could stop over when you are down here.

Has anyone had the chance to study BJJ directly in Brazil at the Gracie school or any other training center? Were there other foreign students?

There's a guy in Santa Fe that conducted a seminar here last month. You might have seen his picture in the latest issue of grappling, Alberto Crane. He started going to Brazil three years ago as a blue and now has his brown. He's a friendly guy, excellent teacher, and one hell of a grappler.

I have to agree with Ron about going over and working with Tim in BJJ if you have the opportunity. I've trained with a number of famous BJJ people. All in all, the majority are good teachers. Like anything some are better than others, and depending on their teaching style and how you learn will matter greatly in your decision making process.

One of the reasons why I train in BJJ is because of Tim's help in my understanding of what I'm trying to accomplish technically. Initially, I don't think I enjoyed it very much. I understood that there was a big weakness in my overall fight game and after various conversations with Tim, eventually started training to fill this deficiency. Now, before anyone starts to think that this is another info-commercial for Tim, let me just try to articulate why I think Tim provides a good bridge between the classical internal arts and BJJ.

1. Conceptually, the arts are trying to achieve the same result. Control over the opponent with the least amount of effort.

2. The principles of no force on force, yielding at the correct time, heaviness, space/no space are consistant.

3. The drilling method of various methods pushing hands while standing and drilling practice of guard passing/defending are essentially the same. One is while standing, the other is on the ground.

4. Tim has achieved high level skill in both arts. He fundamentally understands the underlying principles and can articulate them to the average student.

Anyone that's rolled with a high level BJJ player will think, "holy sh&t, this feels like push hands!" It's the same feeling.

Basically, what I've outlined is a lot of the SHEN WU Curriculum conceptually. (There's more to it, but this is the overall concept) To many, that think that Tim has 'sold out' the internal arts by incorporating BJJ, I say to them - they have no f#cking clue on what they are trying to achieve. These arts fundamentally work within the same principles making them a strong combination.

By understanding the principles and working hard, you can achieve great things.

It's a worthwhile trip to roll with Tim.

Good luck,
Macaco fino

No doubt. I just heard that the girls are really pretty down on the beaches in Rio.

Hey! Are you insinuating that I'm not pretty?

This is not meant to offend you, Tim :-). But if have to vote I would probably vote for a nice brazilian girl/woman.

regards

I don't think that vote would be fair unless they both had the same attire on (ie thong bikinis).

To answer the first post, there are some technical diferences between Carlson style BJJ, the Machados & "Torrance"/ Helio Gracie style. I really don't have much first hand experience with Machado BJJ, but I do with Carlson & Mainstream Gracie. One difference I have noticed is in the use of the hips; Carlson people do not scoot their hips out to the side when attempting say and armbar from the guard, instead, they to a "side-bend" type motion while keeping their hips flush with the ground. They try not to lift one buttock cheek off the, as is what happens when you "Scoot" your hips away, turning slightly onto your side before attempting an armbar. I know I'm not being incredibly clear & I appologize.
I have noticed this, not only by having instruction from both "sides" of the BJJ family, but at my current BJJ school (REY DIOGO in Santa Monica & Culver City) we have a lot of former Gracie students from Torrance or from Beverly Hills BJJ, which is also non-Carlson, and they all do the armbar that way & Rey or Alemao, the instructors, always correct them and they can never understand why. I notice that CarlsonJr., Wallid Ishmaiel, Maurillo Bustamante and Carloa Barretto all do the Armbar this same Carlson style way. It is a minor point, but interesting to note.

Let me try to make my above post a little clearer. Say you are attempting a "basic" armbar from the guard and you want to lock your opponent's right arm.The mainstream/Helio Gracie style is to "escape" your hips by doing a small "snake move" or "shrimp" TO THE LEFT (turning slightly onto your right side) as you spin your head towards your opponent's left knee. When you do this type of "snake move" your left butt-cheek loses contact with the mat and does not really regain contact with the mat until you have secured the armbar and are applying downward pressure with your left calf on the back of your opponent's neck. In the CARLSON GRACIE style, when you have your opponent in your closed guard and want to armbar his right arm, you simply do a "side-bend", moving just your head and upper body towards uke's left knee, making sure to keep both your butt-cheeks flat on the mat and NOT to turn slightly onto your right hip, rather you keep your hips square with the mat, so that you can more effectively apply power to your opponent's upper body with your legs.

Thanks Chris, interesting posts.

My name is Gary Shepard I have studied under your system with Geg Holmes for 6 years in Tucson AZ... I also studied with the GJJ For 6 years. I am currently a two stripe Blue Belt. I trained also with Rigan and Jean Jaques In Torrance. I studied MJJ for 3 years and helped teach students I helped teach Machado system with Greg Holmes. I am currently moving to Guadalajara Mexico. Would you br willing to open a school in Guadalajara Mex. I think Machado training is the ultimate.
I Would you be interested in helping you with a franchise in Guadalajara Mex. There a 5 Million people in Guadalaja Mexico. I think it would be a good opportunitie for both of us . I love teaching, practicing in Machado's\system.
Please let me know what you think. I believe this location would become one of you largest attendance school.Please let me know you thoughts on this. Without your support, I would have to open an independant school, but would rather have your support and name to attract more students. there are 5 milloio people in Guadalajata. The customer base would be both Americans and Mexicam Nationals. Thus producing a large attendace.

My name is Gary Shepard I have studied under your system with Geg Holmes for 6 years in Tucson AZ... I also studied with the GJJ For 6 years. I am currently a two stripe Blue Belt. I trained also with Rigan and Jean Jaques In Torrance. I studied MJJ for 3 years and helped teach students I helped teach Machado system with Greg Holmes. I am currently moving to Guadalajara Mexico. Would you br willing to open a school in Guadalajara Mex. I think Machado training is the ultimate.
I Would you be interested in helping you with a franchise in Guadalajara Mex. There a 5 Million people in Guadalaja Mexico. I think it would be a good opportunitie for both of us . I love teaching, practicing in Machado's\system.
Please let me know what you think. I believe this location would become one of you largest attendance school.Please let me know you thoughts on this. Without your support, I would have to open an independant school, but would rather have your support and name to attract more students. there are 5 milloio people in Guadalajata. The customer base would be both Americans and Mexicam Nationals. Thus producing a large attendace.

Gary,
Who are you referring to?

Tim,

You better touch up on that spanish! If you move to Guadalajara I'm so there.

I thought Guadalajara was some dusty old town where Speedy Gonzalez and his relatives lived?

Hey wassup BJJ lovers my name is Frankie Naputi. I am currently training under the newly opened Carlson Gracie Jr. Jiu-Jitsu team chapter out here in Guam; Under 3 strip blue belt Gabe Baker.
Your prabably asking yourself; where the heck is Guam? Well, its located in the Pacific ocean of the Mariana Islands just south of Hawaii. Anyhow, i've been training for about 9 months now and I gotta tell you, i'm loving it! BJJ rule on ! ! !

Frankie,
Welcome to the board.

I'm a purple belt under Carlson Sr. BTW, Sr. and Jr. are both in Chicago now.

In reply to the armbar differences between Helio and Carlson style from the guard. I was taught to put my foot in the hip and bridge onto my shoulders before doing the "sidebend". It makes it easier to get perpendicular to the opponent because less surface area of your body is on the mat. Technically, both cheeks are off the ground when you do this.

Good tip, I'll try it.