Mark,

One thing about Erle that caught my attention was when he was teaching Ba Gwa Ch'i Kung. He showed 8 different palms that were to be practiced as a stationary exercise. He was not very specific or informative, only saying to hold each posture for 5 minutes and that you would "shake violently" and if it "hurt like hell" you were doing it correctly. That is contrary to anything i have ever been taught concerning ch'i kung. Also, watching him walk the circle and listening to him explain what to do and how to do it was a source of amusement. The same goes for his so called "linear" set. It really appeared to me that erle was making it up as he went along. I could be totally wrong and Erle may very well be the greatest martial artist of all time, but I won't be wasting my time practicing anything he has to teach. In fairness to Erle i will state that i think it is absolutely impossible for anyone to actually learn a system by watching video tapes. In fact, i believe you would be hard pressed to learn much of anything usefull by means of video or book instruction. It is critical to not only have the initial instruction, but also the repeated correction.

A friend loaned me a couple of Erle's Tai Ji videos. I can say that Erle helped tighten my stomach muscles- I laughed so much I was sore and tight for days. His form was sad, his explanation of some applications were hysterical. Although many believe he is serious,
I firmly believe Erle is pulling an 'Andy Kaufmanesk' joke on the world, making some serious bank and curling up at night thinking
"There's a sucker born every minute".

Aside from the content- the production value was
worse than anything a Jr. High Drama student could produce in a hurry with faulty equipment.

The linear set Erle teaches is a very common one. For reference, examine "Bagua Applications" by Yan Dehua.

Just out of curiousity, did anyone ever go and fight John Adams in L.A., the student of John Painter?

Was there a open invitation somewhere? When was it held? Meynard?

From Wednesday, June 27, 2001 - 10:12 am.

"His student in Los Angeles -- John Adams -- eg is open to cross hands with anybody who wants. So if you are near LA, try it out."

I just wondered if anyone ever took whatever kind of challenge that means. Spar may have been a better word. I was reading through the posts, because I'm from Texas, and I know who Dr. Painter is, and I think he's a stage actor baguazhang instructor, that was trained at the local community college, and has some mail order doctorate degrees. Oh, and a vocational course in hypnotherapy.

>I know who Dr. Painter is, and I think he's a
>stage actor baguazhang instructor, that was
>trained at the local community college, and has
>some mail order doctorate degrees. Oh, and a
>vocational course in hypnotherapy

From what I read on John Adam's site he is also a long time student of William “Uncle Bill” de Thouars, who has a very high reputation. I think if you study with such a ma you should be able to recognise who is fake and who not.

I think his student is more interested in teaching older students some kind of meditation and relaxation exercise.

Hi Meynard,

did you get in contact with him?

I don't know about Dr. Painter, or Captain Painter as he used to call himself. I am leary of such titles when used by a Martial Arts teacher. Grandmaster is the worst.

Erle M. is very good at making the funniest facial grimmaces, but his internal arts knowledge is questionable from what I have seen in his books.

EARL M. IS A GENIUS!
I've spent nearly $16,000 on tapes of his and seminars. A person once TOLD ME that Earl M. can explode rabbits from 14 feet away but wont because his daughter loves rabbits.

With that kind of skill and a heart like that,
(not to mention the price tag)how could anyone doubt the truth?

You guys need serious help.
Roberto Numero Dos

The following question from Mike Hatfield was moved from the thread Xing Yi Quan: Can you use hsing yi in a fight? before it was answered. I did this so that we don't have multiple Park threads going on.

Macaco fino

You say you were studying in Parks' program but left left without negativity, and now study under Tim. This indicates to me that you may have thought Parks' program was ok but that it lacked something you were looking for. Is this correct? If so, what where you looking for?

There was no ill will when I choose to leave Sifu Park's program. In fact, if you go to his website a person named Frank H. maintains it and is one of Sifu Park's students that runs his group in Boston. Frank is a good guy also. It was my friend Shawn that put Frank's design of Park's website together for them.

Of course, me stating my reasons for leaving Sifu Park's program and training with Tim are going to upset some people. Anything I state will be viewed as negative or I don't really know what I'm saying. So, I hesitate to state specifically why.

This is my opinion and my opinion only.

Tim is the best teacher (martial arts) that I've ever had in my life. There is a sincerity that cannot be expressed with words that I feel about how he is when he is teaching. Even if he wasn't as good as he is, this attribute alone is not found in too many teachers these days, regardless of art. This attribute alone is worth studying with him.

He is constantly learning and pushing himself to get better, as a communicator and educator, as well as a martial artist. He is a master, but will never use any title to indicate authority.

He is well rounded and possesses martial skill in all ranges. He can teach this skill in the different ranges also. Shen Wu program.

HE was the guy that helped Dan Miller many times with regards to Dan's books and Bagua Journal. Enough said.

You want to trace a real lineage for your respective classical internal art, you can do it through Tim.

You want to learn how to fight, (all ranges) you can do it with Tim.

Some of his students compete in Sport fighting competitions. The ones that do, do very well. Many don't and enjoy the traditional forms that have been practiced by the great seniors before them. It's always a kick to do a form that someone did 100 years earlier, and actually know that it is the same form. Tim can teach these. He's trained with some pretty impressive people. Sun's daughter, Liang Ke Quan, Luo and many many others.

He still competes.

He reads classical Chinese (speaks fluently because he lived in Taiwan/China for 11-12 years) and translates them so they are applicable into the modern world. He's a martial artist and Chinese language scholar so he understands the relationship when translating. Too many people are either one or the other and they miss the little important things in the translations.

He's one of the best people you'll ever meet.

Macaco fino

Dear Macaco fino

>Of course, me stating my reasons for leaving
>Sifu Park's program and training with Tim are
>going to upset some people. Anything I state
>will be viewed as negative or I don't really
>know what I'm saying. So, I hesitate to state
>specifically why.

It's a pity that you do not want to state why, but I can understand this. On the other side it is not possible to live a life without upsetting some people. And as long as it is not the intention I do not see this as a problem.

Nevertheless it would be interesting to hear your side of the story. It is always good to hear some different things about people, so that it is easier to get an more rounded view.

If you are willing state your reasons in a private mail I will really enjoy this. I inserted my email address, so if it is ok for you, please drop me a mail.

kind regards
Volker

Volker,
No offense, but I will not email you. It is only my business and I am choosing to keep it this way.

good training,
Macaco fino

Dear Macaco fino

sure, it's totally up to you.

Volker

Wow, mature restraint from young Master Bellone. Very cool.

He left because Park can't explode rabbits.

Maynard

>I'm in L.A. I'll cross hands(actual sparring, no
>protection) with him.

Is this

>I think his student is more interested in
>teaching older students some kind of meditation
>and relaxation exercise.

just a way for you to say that you are stepping back from you original statement?

BBB,

No I'm still up for crossing hands, but I'm not going to challenge a guy who has absolutely done nothing to me. That's just stupid.

This is such an old thread. Why are stirring things up?

Someone posted this on another site. Enjoy. : )

www.pakua.org

Painful to watch...

"Betty's back! And remember, there's only one Betty, Big Balled Betty!"

Speaking of "What the...."

Check out these nifty pictures of Doctor/Ranger/Captan/Movie Star John Biff Painter and his teacher from his website...
look at each picture very closely.

http://www.jiulongbaguazhang.com/graphics/drpmrli.jpg

http://www.jiulongbaguazhang.com/graphics/lilong.jpg

http://www.jiulongbaguazhang.com/graphics/liwalk.jpg

my sides are achin'

It's interesting how Li Long Dao has exactly the same expression in every picture, and how his head is way too small for his body.

Holy sh*t, you'd think Painter would have used a computer to doctor those pictures rather than scissors and glue.