Archive through October 18, 2005

Tim's Discussion Board: Martial Artist - Miscellaneous: Steve Morris: No Holds Barred: Archive through October 18, 2005
   By Tony on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 12:27 pm: Edit Post

Autobiography of a rather controversial figure in the UK.A former 6th dan in Goju ryu who burn't his grading certificates in disgust and went his own way.Morris has performed what would under normal circumstances be called "supernormal feats".These include ripping the door off a London cab when the driver pissed him off,turning over a cab(seems to have a thing about cabs) in Benghazi when he only weighed 10 stone and lifting a horse off a gate.To him these are perfectly normal and we should be aiming at achieving this state all the time whilst fighting.

Biographies a bit over the top but the other articles on his site are worth reading.

http://www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk/biography.htm


   By Tim on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 04:02 pm: Edit Post

Mr. Morris wrote:
"For the first time in the history of the martial arts, the whole world can bear witness by way of cable TV and video to the effectiveness of NHB fighters such as Rickson Gracie, Emeliamenko Fedor, Rodrigo Nagueira, Randy Couture, Vanderlei Silva, Royce Gracie, Yoshida Hidehiko, Tito Ortiz, Frank Shamrock, Bas Ruttan, Quinton Jackson, Chuck Lidell, Matt Hughes, Ralf Gracie, Murilo Bustamante, Carlos Newton, Renzo Gracie and PJ Penn, to name just a few. But still the vast majority of martial artists prefer to remain blinkered from the truth: that they, their masters or the 'champions' of their quasi-martial traditions wouldn't last very long in an anything-goes unarmed combat against even a mediocre NHB fighter, let alone any of the previously mentioned. The quasi-martial disciplines (which the late Donn Draegar once described as an ass in a tiger's skin) are, like Uri Gellar, a collosal sham. Like Gellar, by creating an illusion of supernormal powers, they attract those who see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. And although such illusions are easily exposed as nonsense, the true believer will never be swayed from his absolute belief in the supernormal. The quasi-martial disciplines and people like Gellar are an insult to that very thing that makes us unique as a species: reasoning, or, if you like, plain common sense—which, unfortunately, judging from the evidence, isn't that common."

I don't think anyone has ever put it better.


   By Tim on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 04:08 pm: Edit Post

There's more:
"A popular notion amongst many quasi-martial artists is that because NHB fighting prohibits biting, gouging, fishhooks, and (depending on the event) kicks to the groin, that this is a fundamental flaw that they could easily exploit. They fail to realize that in a fight in which anything goes, NHB fighters, because of their familiarity with achieving, neutralizing, escaping, or reversing positional control both on the feet in the open and closed positions and on the ground in the top and bottom positions, not to mention their mindset, physical conditioning, multi-dimensional level of skills and considerable experience in stand-up and ground situations, are more likely to be able to bite, gouge, fishhook and groin kick (should they find it necessary to do so) than some quasi-martial artist who never had anything that resembles an anything goes fight in his life—and if he has, it wasn't against an NHB fighter."


   By Jason M. Struck on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 12:07 pm: Edit Post

I got stuck reading that violent psychopath's bio for over an hour.
My observation: The martial arts world is often divided into a few camps:
The Chi-Huggers; Is 'hippies' descriptive enough?
The Traditionalists; Sometimes this is good. Culture must be preserved. Sometimes these cultures are somewhat obsolete (TKD: You can't kick Tito Ortiz in the face at will).
The Sportsmen; Often these are just jock types- They wind up enjoying wrestling or Judo or boxing for the same reason they love football or basketball.
Fighters; Fighters is a nice euphanism for sociopaths. People who are drawn to violence. They often are attracted to martial arts that place an emphasis on sparring so that they can act out their violent behavior in a safer environment. It often becomes apparent though that these people would be just as happy in a bar brawl, a prison shanking or fighting you rather than training with you.

I have never seen Tim's Shen Wu school, but judging from the website and the comments and decorum of his students, it seems like someone actually struck a rather keen balance between the traditions, sports and fight. I think we could all agree that managing an undisputed fight record while remaining a socially well adjusted person that is not a bully is pretty cool.


   By Kungfool (Unregistered Guest) on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 04:25 pm: Edit Post

As a hippie-Jock-traditional-fighter I find I have a foot in each camp. People are always making fun of me for having 4 feet, which is why I developed sociopathic tendencies. Yesterday I did a quadruple scissor kick takedown on a guy because he wanted to know which way I was headed. It's not funny you know!


   By Tim on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 08:03 pm: Edit Post

Thanks Jason,

As an aside, I grew up around British, blue collar, drinking class sometimes violent men (I called them "uncles"), they're are not always such a bad lot once you get to know them.

On the other hand, they don't take any either.


   By Bob #2 on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 08:06 pm: Edit Post

Druncles.


   By Jason M. Struck on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 08:14 am: Edit Post

I think that I know exactly what you mean. While I was in China I had a lot of English acquaintances. I don't know if it's a cultural thing or just the crowd that I attract, but it seems entirely too common for the English to act like carrousing violent sailors on shore leave.


   By Tony on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 10:10 am: Edit Post

Quote: " I don't know if it's a cultural thing or just the crowd that I attract, but it seems entirely too common for the English to act like carrousing violent sailors on shore leave."

Might be some truth in that.It seems there are certain groups in the UK,who regardless of social class,enjoy nothing more than giving someone a good kicking.If you look at the convictions for football related violence the culprits are often solicitors,accountants and various other professionals!

I wouldn't go too much on that autobiography(his partner is the AMERICAN science fiction writer,Trica Sullivan) of Mr Morris.I have a couple of his videos and he comes across as pleasant and charismatic.I also have friends who have trained with him and they too descibed him as cordial and pleasant but barking mad!His technical knowledge is of a very high order and well worth looking at but I can understand people being reluctant to train with him after reading that autobiograhy.It dosen't do him any favours.


   By Jason M. Struck on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 10:51 am: Edit Post

My first statement was that I was 'stuck' reading his autobiography. What I meant by this was actually that I was fascinated. I didn't mean to put too much weight behind 'sociopath' or 'psychopath'. Everybodie's got there little 'quirks'. That being said, I don't think that I could ever get cozy around someone whom I know is going to start a fight, whether or not it's with me. I enjoy competition. I don't really like senseless violence.

Anyone who wants to add to, amend or discredit my archetypes of martial artists, I'd love to hear it. My list was not meant to be exhaustive or exclusive. It wasn't meant to be derisive either. I think that there are pros and cons to all the characters I mentioned, and the perfect martial arts school would have to be a blend of all. Well... maybe not the chi-huggers. I dunno.


   By Tai Chi BOB on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 09:00 pm: Edit Post

I totally relate to your archetypal pros & cons
Jocks are the pros
Fighters are definitely Cons and X-Cons
The Traditionalist must be Semi Pros
And The Chi Huggers are amateurs


   By robert on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 02:23 pm: Edit Post

i disagree,

the best fighters are those who have to fight to survive, not for fun or sport. regardless of how you fight or your style, the more you are able to defend yourself, the better you will get, just as steel sharpens steel, man also sharpens man.

and leave the chi huggers alone, if not for them we wouldnt have fighting arts such as tai chi xing yi bagua, etc.

the ones who really cant fight? well, im not saying any names,**coughtaichibobcough***:-)

a fighter is a fighter, there are no subcategories.

btw, i find it typical for a person to undergo martial arts training and then in the end discredit it while at the same time leeching all the credit to themselves. as if it gave them nothing at all.


   By Tai Chi BOB on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 12:08 am: Edit Post

Robert:
you should know what it like to fight for survival
they way you have your head up your butt constantly fighting for air

for gawds sake just typing on the computer has got you coughing


   By Kenneth Sohl on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 10:00 am: Edit Post

Sheesh, Tim, you typed all that after I just finished ranting about you being....LACONIC....


   By robert on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 03:01 pm: Edit Post

lol


   By Bob #2 on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 07:36 pm: Edit Post

(I bet Tim mastered the art of Cut-and-paste to save typing time.)

Bob#2
(texting you)


   By J.T.Sukhwani on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 12:20 pm: Edit Post

"(I bet Tim mastered the art of Cut-and-paste to save typing time.)"

LOL!

I am also impressed by Steve Morris in-depth knowlege of biomechanics and power transfer but what impress me most is that he understands KungFu better than a lot of Masters/Teachers.

Thank God i did not take Karate.LOL.

Yours,

Jagdish


   By Michael Andre Babin on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 10:35 am: Edit Post

Mr. Morris doesn't seem to have much of sense of modesty; but when I read his stuff I can only agree with almost everything that he says -- especially in relation to real fighting.

The majority of taiji/internal arts people should read his words and watch a number of mma fights to get some understanding of why most combative training in the modern internal martial arts is pretty lame.

Of course, most will read and watch, as Mr. Morris points out, and then go back to doing what they have always done. Such is life and human nature ... I'm probably not much better.

However, for all my lacks as a martial artist and teacher, I have learned how to get hit and how to deal with spontaneous attacks within the limited context of a friendly training environment which puts me in the postiiton of at least knowing what I can't do!

On the other hand, there are also more reasons to do a martial art than just being a fighter and Mr. Morris doesn't seem to appreciate that .. at least from what I saw on his website.


   By J.T.Sukhwani on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 08:14 am: Edit Post

Michael:

You have written valid points.

I think one can change his training if one has control and full responsibility of one's own training. What do i mean by this? Simple, if you go to a school as a student and it's the only training you do then you don't have chances to change your training. If you have the possibility of training alone or with a bunch of guys privately then you can focuse on different things.

One of the most things i agree with him is the need for anaerobic conditioning or small bursts for street fighting.

And yes, Martial arts should be more than merely fighting. :-)

Yours,

Jagdish


   By eddie_eagleclaw (Unregistered Guest) on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 01:30 pm: Edit Post

Steve Morris is probably the most knowledgeable man in Europe on the subject of fighting bar none, and he is most definitely NOT a "violent psychopath". His ability is on a totally different level from most so-called "masters".