I presume he is dead....

If so, when and what from? He was quite well, large....

cheers

According to Robert Smith, he died in 1981 at age 77. He had untreated diabetes and refused amputation of his legs in 1979.

och cheers, i heard he met john bluming. Anybody know what bluming thought of him and xing yi?

Smith reports two meetings. On the first, Bluming hurt his wrist trying a punch to Wangs belly, but was not impressed as some non martial arts types know how to do that trick as well. On the second meeting Wang demonstrated a 'corkscrew' punch starting with his hand placed against Blumings stomach, this technique caused Bluming to bend over double. Smith does not further elaborate.

It is always appreciated when information is obtained that will broaden my underastanding of a particular subject. Hopefully this information will be useful to some of you. The following excerpt was found at http://www.taikyokuken.co.jp/english/einfo/infotai.html: “Wang Shu-chin, who later took over the leadership of the Chung-nan lineage of Pa-kua and Hsing-i from Chang Chao-tung, had, during his youth, been sent by Chang to represent him in a meeting to bring T'ai-chi "back to the basics," and to actively participate by injecting into it elements of both Hsing-i and Pa-kua. In 1929, this "new" style of T'ai-chi Ch'uan was "created" by the T'ai-chi Organizing Committee of the National Martial Arts Academy in Nanking. In formulating what they called "Orthodox (Ch: cheng-tsung) T'ai-chi Ch'uan" (OTC; also called tsung-ho, or comprehensive, T'ai-chi Ch'uan) the committee, working with the fundamental principles of the internal arts, took the combative components of the five styles of T'ai-chi then prevalent-the Ch'en, Yang, Wu, Sun, and Wu (Hao) styles. The great masters of each of these styles who gathered together to establish this form were attempting to return the art of T'ai-chi to its original "martial art" form; and, indeed, the main special characteristic of OTC is that none of its postures contains any useless movements (in terms of martial applications). Wang Shu-chin played a very active role as a member of that committee, and was instrumental in infusing the fundamentals of both Hsing-i and Pa-kua into the 99-pose long form.”

You can gain access to the students in this lineage from http://www.cheng-ming-usa.org/english.html and http://www.taichi-chuan.com/nextver/eng/hebmain.htm. My understanding is that grand masters poured their knowledge and wisdom into forming this system of Tai Chi, Shinyi and Pa Kua. Are there any visitors to this messageboard who practice in this lineage.

Hello Ty, My teacher attended the Central Martial Arts Academy in Nanjing. Is this the same as the National Academy? If it is, I find the story very interesting and the next time I speak with her I will ask her about that particualr form and if she knows anyone who teaches it.

You can also get information regarding the late Wang Shijin at Manfred Rottman's site. Please note Mr. Rottman is no longer associated with the Ching Ming organization. Also I don't believe Master Wang was recognized as an "official" disciple of Chang Chao Tung.

Buddy

I had an e-mail exchange in November 2001 with Jon Bluming about Wang. Bluming stated that despite all stories he never fought him because Wang refused to do so, but he also referred to him as a great master and a "... difficult man to deal with in combat ..."

My teacher is from the lineage of Wang Shu Jin and is an active member of the Cheng Ming lineage. Although I am only a beginner, I will try to answer any questions you may have. If I don't know I can ask my teacher for you.

The Tai Ji taught has influences of Xing Yi and Ba Gua. For instance, the postures are primarily done in a San Ti stance and the same goes for some of the striking. As I have no experience in Ba Gua, I can't comment on the Ba Gua influences.

As a note, a student is required to learn Tai Ji then progress to Xing Yi and finally Ba Gua.

Hope this helps.
Rob

Mark, I am not sure about the academies in Nanjing. I will be looking forward to any information from your instructor.

Rob, If the information about this system is true you would think it would be more popular. What are some of the qualities of the system that makes it more combative. What postures are left out or modified to make it a better fighting system. I don't mean to overwhelm you with these questions. You did say you were a beginner. Any information you can provide me with will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Ty

Ty,
I have no idea why Wang Shu Jin's system isn't more popular. Having said that, I have been told that his system is quite popular in Japan. In terms of your other questions, I can only answer them from my own perspective (I hope that's ok).

The reason I chose to study with my teacher is because after visiting the few teachers in my area I found he was the only one that seemed to be able to show how to use it and issue relaxed power, compared to the others who seemed to focus primarily on the health aspects of Tai Ji.

I have been taught applications for every movement (many applications for the same movements) of the Tai Ji form although my teacher told me once (when I first started) the primary reason for learning the Tai Ji to become aware of your center while moving and to learn how to be relaxed (or something like that).

We also practice different versions of push-hands at varying intensity, and finally move into more of a free form fighting. I haven't started the free fighting yet, but from what I can tell it gets pretty rough at times and reminds me of my old Judo days...

In any event, to sum it up, I liked what I saw and felt so I keep at it. I hope to one day be able to use these principles in a free style sparring session.

I don't know if any of this helps at all but if you have specific questions just let me know.

Rob

Rob, are you in the U.S.? If so, do you study in Garland? The reason I ask is I am looking for a Taijiquan teacher in the DFW area. I visited Cheng-Ming in Garland and participated in the lesson. I really like what I saw there. The only problem I have, is that it's 40 miles from where I live. Were you impressed with any of the other teachers you visited? Were any of them closer to Fort Worth, particularly the mid-cities? Of course this question is all assuming that you are in the US and study in Garland, TX. Thanks in advance for your attention.

Charley

Can anyone tell me whether there is any connection between Wang Shu Chin's tai chi and Chen Pan Ling's tai chi? Was Chen Pan Ling one of those masters participating in the meeting at the National Martial Arts Academy to bring tai chi "back to the basics"?

Charley,
I do practice in the US (currently), however I do not study in Texas. I have heard great things about the guys in Garland, and that they sometimes play rough. Unfortunately I am not familiar with any teachers in Texas.

Daniel,
I have been told that Wang Shu Jin's Tai Ji is similar to Chen Pan Ling's style. However, I believe Wang changed the form to include movements from Ba Gua and Xing Yi, which is where the differences lie.

Hope this helps,
Rob

Thanks for the reply, Rob. I guess I will have to continue the search, or buckle down and start driving 40 miles in rush hour traffic twice a week. Well, maybe just once a week, there are Saturday classes. At least it's not in SoCal.

Charley

If the teacher is good- 40miles in rush hour is no biggie. I drive 80 miles to Tim's school every Tuesday night.. that'd be SoCal... 405 Freeway bumper to bumper most of the way.

(I think Tim mentioned it was a 4-hour train ride to one of his teachers while living in China).

Ah, well, trains are okay, you can just sit back, relax, and let someone else do the driving. Maybe not trains in China, I've never been there. I just tend to get very angry in traffic. People don't know how to drive here (like they know how to drive anywhere) and every automobile except mine is a pickup or an SUV or a tractor-trailer. Not to mention they are all enraged Southern Baptists. It's strange, Texans are very polite people, except on the road. I have driven in SoCal traffic, and I almost had a coniption fit. You are right though, if the teacher's good enough, it's worth it.

I pulled this from another site in regards to Wang;

Wang was a deep believer in chi. At our first meeting, he said to me, "I can eat more than you, I can have more sex than you, and I can fight better than you, but you call yourself healthy. Well, young man, there is a lot more to being healthy than being young, and it all comes down to how much chi you have."

Apparently Wang was "not that healthy." Unless of course one views obesity/diabetes and impending amputation as a manifestation of " A Lot Of Chi."

At this same site we are told that Wang was "well into his eighties."

A little less standing/eating, and a lot more moving sounds,like a lot safer prescription for health IMHO.

Unless of course,one would rather "engorge themselves" with the self serving hyperbolic salesmenship of overweight myth spinners

For me personally I'd rather not let everybody takes free shots at my guts and kicking my legs while I just stand there and do nothing. However, Being big and heavy doe give u an edge in a fight if you also have good speed.

Cool Hand Luke,
You're never going to make friends if you keep telling the truth like that.