Personal comments about dead people is generally in very poor taste especually when they are not relevant to anything.

Wang's weight was most likely due to untreated diabetes. And the most likely reason Wang's diabetes went untreated was due to the poor state of medical care at that time, plus perhaps Wang's religious beliefs.

Discussing Wang's ideas is one thing, that is relevant because he was quite influencial. Discussing Wang's personal medical problems is not relevant to anything.

I should be quick to mention that I am not a member of the Wang Fan Club. He was an old style traditional teacher with all the problems that go with that, including unquestioning acceptance of ideas about chi that in fact maybe nonsense.

But be that as it may, personal comments about how "fat" a deadman was, are in bad taste. Remember Cool Hand Luke, you ain't going to be young and thin, fast and strong and pretty forever.

Take care,
Brian

Brian,

>" Wang's weight was most likely due to untreated diabetes."<

As far as I know diabetes of the type 2 variety is almost always brought on by excessive weight,improper diet and a lack of proper exercise.Not obesity as a result of diabetes.

Look,Wang was a grand martial artists no doubt about it.However some choose to misrepresent and confuse his tremendous martial power/lifestyle as a vehicle to health.

And by the way Brian,I can eat more than,I can have more sex than you and I can fight better than you.

Well young man-" you ain't going to be young and thin, fast and strong and pretty forever"- a lot sooner than me.

I was not a student of Wang's and I do not get money from his fanclub but the thing remains the same: what a bad taste complaininig about the weight of a dead warrior. I bet my right arm that no one of us will ever get where Wang got. Moreover, is there anybody here who could tour East Asia like Wang and defeat all challengers?

Up our chins, we are martial artists!

Well wait a sec. I heard Wang got defeated some even tho he won most things. Why do you think your positive press about Wang is any truer than a few mild negative remarks? Did you know him?

Will,
I did not know Wang but there are serious books (articles, interviews etc.) who describe his talents, plus there are some of his students operating as teachers that are doing really well (every master is judged watching his disciples' talent)who seldom speak about their sifu's life. Still, I'm NOT claiming any 'truth', just respect for the memory of a dead man. Do you believe is it a noble attitude to call 'fat', 'obese' someone who is not alive anymore? Just this, my friend. Please forgive me if I 'sounded' anything else than that, english not being my motherlanguage.

Up our chins, we are martial artists!
Mario

Do I believe it is a noble attitude to call 'fat', etc., someone who is dead? It is not noble if he was not fat. If he was fat, it is a fact and should not cause any stir. If he was fat and someone called him 'slim' while trying to be nice to a dead man, I would say they are shaming him, not helping him. If we are going to talk about martial arts and we are prohibited from saying anything negative about a dead man and only allow people to say nice things (true or not), then we are sliding down a slippery slope.

"Up our chins, we are martial artists!"

Martial artists know to keep their chins tucked.

He Of The Jutting Jaw,

Since English is not your mothers native language let me expound.

There ARE living martial artists who in the past have made silly statemenst and assertions in regards to health and the martial arts.

Assertions such as one can eat any amount of any type of food without fear of consequence,providing they practice Pa Qua circle walking on a daily basis.

A silly assertion no matter what form of exercise one is engaging in.Jim Fixx if still alive might agree.

The point being that in the name of commercial profit-MO- certain martial artist have portrayed the 'internal martial arts ' as being some sort of all encompassing health panacea.

Didn't Chang Chun Feng have diabetes as well?Didn't Hung have high blood pressure as well as succumbing to a related death?

Nobody is smearing the martial art name of any of these great practitioners.

I remember talking to Joe Deisher's teacher Chang I Jung-spelling?-he was very forthcoming about his dead teachers health.Now there is a dietary zealot.


Tonight when mommy tucks you in,perhaps the native language barrier will have a greater comprehension.

Sorry CoolHandLuke, could you explain better what you meant with the last statement? Must be some sort of american slang that I did not grasp.
Just in case,If you are able to, you can wite me also in the following languages: french, spanish, portoguese, italian, latin, greek. It's my fault if I do not speak your jargon, sorry again.

Mario,

what coolhandluke was trying to say, under all the flowery words designed to make you feel stupid while he pretends to 'expound' [to explain deeply], was that many people believe that if you excersise- you can eat anything and not be harmed.

(I think Jim Fixx was the man who got American's in to 'jogging' [running half-speed for better health]. Jim Fixx dropped dead at 56 while jogging.]

I'd like to add, that most of the long living people I've ever known- my Aunt lived to 106,
George Burns lived to 102 (i think), were drinkers and smokers who rarely worried about taking care of their physical bodies and ate whatever was available. (although, 'junk-food' was not as popular 100 years ago as it is now).

While those people may not have been able to fight well- they could dance on the graves of the best fighters of their generation.

Recently a man who turned 104 years old was asked what the secret was to living long....
he simply said "don't die"

CoolHandLuke,

"The point being that in the name of commercial profit-MO- certain martial artist have portrayed the 'internal martial arts ' as being some sort of all encompassing health panacea"

I doubt that it is this "certain martial artist" (BK Frantzis) who first started to talk about health benefits of internal CMA.

As far as I understood the point he tried to make
is that being fit (in Western sense) and being healthy is not the same because Western approach doesn't emphasize that much the internal organs conditioning. Internal CMA on his opinion provide more balanced approach (with less attention on the external appearance).

Does martial arts instructor write/say something positive about the stuff he teaches only because it would help his business? May be he is in this business because he think it is true?

Anvar,

Blah Blah Blah.I have no idea why any martial arts instructor/instructor's do what they do.No need to personalize the isssue.

Who really has the time?

After all there are cathouses's to visit,gluttony to partake of.

Wouldn't want the old nervous system to become weak now would I?

But I know I'm getting " healthy " as I just ripped the seat of my pant's during my morning I-Chuan session.

On top of it all I look like crap.What more could an " internal CMA" hope for.

Now excuse me while I go inhale a pack and a half of cigarettes and " condition my internal organs."

CoolHandLuke,

You forgot to add fighting to the list

Question: how long would you enjoy such a life without maintenance?

Anvar,

Indeed.Sugar Ray Robinson and many other boxers did not live long healthly lives either.

Ali is a perfect modern day example.Punishment exacting it's eventual toll?

Chalk at least some of it up to occupational hazard?

As well as only training when preparing for a bout.Not a training lifestyle?More questions than answers IMO.

Mario,

You are at least five times smarter than I am!After re reading my post please feel free to refer to me as "The Jack Ass "

Apologies to you sir.

CoolHandLuke,
I rather call you with your real name, which you proudly have. My name was choosen for me by my father and it's my grandfathers'. It comes form the same word that in ancient indoeuropean language formed the word 'Mars', the God of War, and from whom of course martial arts derivate their name. I don't criticate you using a nickname meaning so, anyway. Mario has the same meaning of Mars, the One who Fight to Protect, roughly translated 'The Man' by etruscans and romans. What's yours, my friend?

Let's hold our head high, we are martial artists!
Mario

Sorry - post n.2

Bob (#2),
I agree with you and I thank you for the information you gave us. One's lifestyle is totally personal and should not be our business to criticize it, especially when we all know how short and unstable human existence it. Martial Arts are indeed a way of life, to get ready to fight for justice in any moment. Internal arts help us to do it keeping the best 'science of body mechanics' available. I think it is nice to train to become a warrior while keeping the 'frame' healthy. I agree with you, longevity is mostly genetically programmed; the best way I can imagine is to live as long as I can but only for some goal, not just to survive.
My grandad lived 'till 88, smoking 80 cigars a day, eating mostly fat and drinking 20 cups of coffee. What is the point here? To live only for a warrior is not enough, to live grandly is the only choice. A noble (grand) man does not call 'obese' a dead master even if it's true, does not offend comrade martial artists on the internet, does not strive to sound like the smartest guy in the world.This is my unimportant opinion, anyway.

Let's hold our head high, we are martial artists!
Mario

Mario,
Well said.

Mario,

Thank you and I agree right back. It has been my experience that good martial arts training and eating a healthy diet does help one be the best they can be.

Whether they are healthy for their age or coughing up black chunks of lung from a life time of smoking- I have yet to encounter a person
(male or female) over 78 years old who I was unable to beat during a fight.

Mario,

Thank you for your kind words.My name is Conrad.

My parents named me after a country singer who was playing the juke joint the night of their initial meeting.

And also the night- they believe- of my conception.

It makes a man proud to know "We Were Once Rednecks"

to Conrad, Bob, Walter and all others:
thank you very much, my friends. Isn't it true that the most important thing among men (those who stand up for justice, the others just being humans) is to frankly speak each other with a brave heart? That what martial arts are for me, however. They are an ethical code, a technique, a way of life with many variations but only one truth. I symbolically hug all of you trough the internet my friends.

Let hold our head high, we are martial artists!