Hi there, I am a guy of 48 and I am looking for a challenge in life. I have decided to learn Pa Kua and have bought books by Park Bok Nam and Dan Miller. My problem is, in volume 2 there is a more clear cut guide to the study methods, whereas volume 1 is a bit vague (only in the steps to beginning study). I don't want to start a training program that I am prepared to spend the rest of my life doing by starting off the wrong way. I would appreciate any advice (just 1 side of A4, bullet points)

I have a study method worked out, but don't know if I am putting the cart before the horse.

I plan to start in the first year with:
a) 1/2 hr Xing-I Nei Gong (as a warm up)
a) 1/2 hr a day on footwork drills
b) 1/2 hr on Pa Kua body training
c) 1/2 hr circle walking chi kung

Year two will be more advanced training from volume 1.

Sorry for the long post but I am concerned that I start in the right way.

Thanks in advance for any help, please, no flames about Park or his Pa Kua. It is what I want to do!

Alan Green

Do you plan on just learning from the book or are you going to see a teacher regularly?
I strongly suggest the latter. The requirements of alignment, forms, and method can not be learned without qualified instruction.

If you have a teacher, I recommend asking him or her what to do for a training regime.

Hi Walter, I am learning from the books and videos, there are no Pa Kua teachers near me. I do go to lessons in applied Yang Taiji and have studied one form of martial art or another all my life so I can pick up on most things.

I was planning to use the early training to condition my legs and body and get 'body memory' of the footwork, fan chang and walking postures.

Unfortunately, there's no one near me to ask.

Thanks for your helpful comments though. Alan

You can't pick up bagua without a good teacher regularly available to correct you, Alan. Nor without decent partners to practice/spar with.

In Park's system you can get the practice partners through the "study groups". But you won't get frequent/good correction.

Martial arts with an "internal" focus rely on precise alignment, body mechanics and practice in strategies that require an experienced eye to evaluate. It's not a question of being able to imitate the gross exterior movements and form. If you don't experience the proper kinesiological "feeling" from a qualified teacher's correction, you won't be able to correct yourself in your individual practice. Initial errors will be compounded exponentially by uncorrected practice.

Yang style taijiquan practice will help some, but baguazhang differs substantially in many respects from taijiquan.

Hi Tom, I agree, working with a good teacher is the 'ideal'. It is a hurdle not not having a teacher available but I have learned most of what I know in life through reading, observing and then doing, throughout all my schooling and my long time in the armed forces. I am hoping that with enough understanding from the text and deep focused training of basic priciples I can make a good start.

I am not limiting myself to the Pa Kua Chang of Lu Shui-Tian but I am studying as much about proper body mechanics and whole body strength as I can.

Surely the idea of transmitting this knowledge in book and tape form is to help bring this teaching to people unable to attend regular classes?

At the very least it will keep me fit J

It will keep you fit. Hopefully you can avoid joint injury by not doing the multiple-repetition 48 Palms sets incorrectly.

There is reading . . . there is watching (someone else do it). . . then there is the physical feeling of getting the alignment/mechanics right, which you'd be extraordinarily lucky to get on your own if you don't have an experienced eye watching and an experienced hand correcting.

Good luck.

Hi Tom, I agree with everything you say and would be very happy to find a good teacher; but in the absence of a teacher, I don't think that it will be impossible, just extremely difficult.

My search for a teacher will continue, meanwhile I would appreciate any advice or direction as I try to condition my body for PaKua. I am still hoping someone may have experience of training in the fundamentals (as taught by Park) and can comment on my proposed 1st year 2hr/day workout.
(By the way I will also keep up my Taiji and other training)

I would like to find out more about Tim Cartmell's true balance dynamics, as I believe that "boxing should be walking, throwing a punch- like snapping your fingers" and I want to avoid any "forcing" of technique... I'm sure I read that somewhere???

Thank you for your good wishes, I am sure I will need them!

Oops! I meant to say "boxing should be like walking" ....

Alan,

I have some experience with what you are trying to undertake and despite Tom and Walter's valid reservations, it is not impossible, but obviously not ideal or something you would recommend given different circumstances. I've read your posts and you seem well aware of the difficulties involved.

As for having no teacher to correct your postural alignment, you can develope methods of self correction and you can also send photos or videos to a teacher for correction. Doing alot of self training makes you more appreciative of the fundamentals or basic principles, because your ability to both understand and demonstrate them is often your only yardstick to measure progress and arbitrate disputes.

Luck has nothing to do with it. With hard training, patience, persistence, peserverance etc, you will find ways, sometimes traditional and sometimes novel around any problems. If you want, or maybe more importantly need the skill, you will find ways of getting it. You may also find there are some advantages to training in this manner.

Unfortunately I have no first hand experience with Park Bok Nam's methods, so can't comment on your programme.

Chris, I really appreciate what you wrote, the thought of using video or photographs to send to a teacher is an excellent idea! I will try to find out about becoming a registered student of Park Bok Nam's school and if sending videos is acceptable to them.

I am really determined to develop a "kung fu body" and have a ten year plan for achieving my short term goals. I also intend to learn more Taiji and Chi Kung.

Thanks again for your very constructive comments.

" . . . a 10-year plan for achieving my short term goals."

I like the way you think.

Alan


That schedule is ok if you want a nice exercise, however if you want to develop skill, it is better to take one step and one upper body move and do each for one hour for at least four months before moving on to anything else. In the long run, you'll be much better off this way.

Alan,

Just as a sidenote, the combining of taiji and pa kua training is not new. For example, if you go to Jarek's site (www.chinafrominside.com/ma) you can find an article on Bagua Taijiquan. Also the Wang Shu Chin/Chen Pan Ling style of Taijiquan includes elements of Bagua within it.

Alan,
How are you, today? Who is your driver?