Without a proven and effective training that teaches how to shortcircuit the neurocortex, reptile brain will not emerge. I enjoyed the Army dogs' example but here exactly the opposite is true. We can take anyone and brainwash him, creating a killer, but this we have done for our advantage, not his. He his a poor madman, slave of altered mind states we have forever confused in his head.
The okuden level of ancient arts was for the élité, so secretive that not even top students of that klan knew it existed most of the times. It was for people who dominated.
Here an example: the normal person skilled in the arts has the same values he had before training, only with slightly changes in the emotions (courage, fear etc.), the second layer of the mind. The adept of secretive killer arts doesn't, he has altered his perception of himself and the world permanently. His spiritual maturity (remember Buddah?) is totally instrumental to achieve something in this field. This is a very long story, of course, but every 'enlightment' comes only after is recognized free will does not exist (right now)..

To sum up, I would like to reaffrirm that it's easily proven that in original martial arts - archaic- there's a lot of knowledge which allows old masters of these arts to fight skilled youths. Some of this knowledge is public, some isn't. At their very best all the arts known want to bring the adept at a full transformation of himself; the 'ritual brain' is overcome and the adept is litterally a weapon.

European,

How do you know about these extremely secret techniques for the elite that even top level clan members did not know about? and why tell us about them?

Having mentioned kicking a smiling Sun Li and coming away with bruised shins, is this ability related to what you are talking about?

First I would like to say that Asia was captured by globalization and the original way of life is disappearing. Some individuals recognized that and decide to teach foreigners for good.

I know 'cause I saw it in action. For example, the extremely popular most advanced form of a super-popular internal art, has a COMPLETELY different meaning when you watch it the'reptile brain' way. There are karate katas of super-poular styles which meaning is NOT understood by many, where vital spots are indicated in the previous movement, by the majority thought to be a 'block' to deflect an attack.
I know 'cause it easily demostrated that every not-chambered attack it's always faster than any defense, for purely physical reasons.
I know 'cause some extremely secret techniques aren't that secret, they are quite obvious, just that we missed the explanation and a training to make them work.
I know 'cause FEW books of adepts about this topic do exist.

I explained above that since the converging of ethology and neuroscience (and psycology, physiology, chinese medicine etc.)practically re-discovered the whole thing, some -few- serious researchers decided to talk. They didn't speak out loud but spoke. Time for secrecy is over, at leat 'till a certain extent. The normal practice of secret in a normal society means nothing to me (& others)in the computer age, where iper-abnormal statal propaganda is bombing us night and day, where cruel systems of mental manipulation are operating on a global scale.

how did they speak without speaking out loud?

Do you read minds?

Can you tell what I'm thinking right now?

Thanks for the answer, it seems pretty clear to me (apart from the bit about speaking without speaking out loud, but I can think of a lot of alternatives for that one, whispering, writing, sign language, body language, mime, metaphor, semaphor, and yes Shane, even telepathy. don't ask ME if I know what you're thinking right now, because I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to know ).

Now can you answer how the perception of the world changes permanently, and what relation killer arts have to the buddha?

ps european, what's so secret about your name?

As a friend of mine used to say, "Ohhhh, you read a book."
Buddy

actually, one thing European is right about is that a lot of these things aren't secrets any more. They are in books, there are hidden meanings to kata, etc. But this is my point: how do you know it is for real? Simple. Try it out for real. You owe it to your art. If it doesn't work, then your art was goofy anyway, lol!

Unfortunately, i know what he's talking about and not by way of psychic abilities either. This stuff is BAD NEWS, not just for the opponent, but often for the exponent as well. It is specifically meant for killing and maiming (and ruining people's lives), in fact that is all its good for, it has no other intrinsic value.

The training is designed to breakdown both physical (physiological) and mental (psychological) 'safety' barriers or 'inhibitors' of the exponent to 'tap' into 'dormant' or 'latent' qualities and exploit such 'weaknesses' of the opponent. As mentioned above this training can transform what, today appears to be a rather innocuous (from a martial stand point)CIMA art into an extremely effective and unpredictable one.

The cost (there always is of course) is that the psychological effects of both the training and combat on the practicioner are rather unpredictable as well, destroying its 'health' benefits. The physical side-effects can be dangerous as well, because you can learn to by-pass muscle reciprocal inhibition/activation and other reflexes, which can lead to nasty injuries.

As far as i'm concerned this sort of training should be allowed to 'die' out, its de-evolution, not evolution. Martial arts consists of two words martial (science of fighting) and art (creative skill training or civil aspects). This sort of training takes the martial to the extreme (and can produce extreme individuals and psychopaths). It is not conflict and competition that has been the dominant evolutionary driving force of humans but mutual co-operation (symbiosis), thats probably why individuals who 'exploit' this evolutionary 'defect' will always be secretive social outcasts.

The best advice i've seen on this whole thread was rumbrae who wrote that you have to be able to also 'live' with the consequences after the event... yeh live with 'yourself' and everybody else.

Would you have a car that you couldn't drive, or a gun that wouldn't shoot? MAs have a lot of fringe benefits, but the bottom line is if it doesn't help you kill your enemies, it is worthless. If I want sport, I'll take up soccer. If I want exercise, I'll go to a gym. If I want religion, I'll go to a church. Yes, we have to bear in mind our responsibilities to society, like you say, it is a science, and the science is in the control. But there is nothing "defective" about being well-suited to survive. I have observed these "survivalist" combat classes (SCARS, SPETSNOZ, etc.) and they almost always assume that the typical martial artist is a "sportsman", and that his art is some watered down nonsense. But surely this wasn't the situation during the Tai-Ping or "boxer" rebellions.

I agree with Chris. There might be a fine line between a psychopathic killer and “enlightened” man but it’s there. If you aspire to awake your "reptilian brain" without some serious and I mean serious mind training, or maybe I should say taming (meditation etc.), you may just as well get high on PCP.

Boxer Rebellion, now THERES an example worthy of a little book larnin.

Hey, any of you reptile advocates want to place a wager on the outcome of the next "Crocodile Hunter" TV show?

lol, I only meant it as an example of fighting spirit, NOT a good cause! I think I mentioned somewhere above that MA training must be complete, including morals and good logic. As for the "Crocodile Hunter", my lizards can't stand him. They prefer to watch "Jurassic Park".

To speak but not loud means that a small book maybe came out from a little known publisher without big coverage on m.arts magazines. Maybe an adept teaches openly in his small dojo in Paris, France but without telling everybody. Maybe a famous martial artist that happens to be a neuroscientist wrote on purpose an article on a neuroscience magazine (that scientists did not understand). Maybe a japanese sensei now teaches gaijin too but only after they demonstrated high moral stability.

Siddharta Gautama (the Enlightened) once said "Life is emptiness". Now, it happens to be that space between atoms is as large as that one between planets of our solar system. Practically we sit on vacuum, we are vacuum... Re-patterning our brain means changing the way we perceive things completely, i.e. the value we give to things, emotions and life in general. It's a long path that once taken cannot be reversed. Once the 'thid eye' is open we just can't go back to the warm cocoon of ignorance we before layed into.

Somebody wrote that this 'reptile' stage of the art ruins peole minds. I found not to be so. It's circular, a return to the Essence. If you are scared going deep inside youself and realize how miserable and splendid is an human being, forget the Archaic Martial Arts.

Name isn't secret, it just that I started to disdain ego-like people and I do practice disciplining myself. I feel now that I'm nothing better than anyone else, that I'm very ignorant and the Way has just begun.
"It was done what had to be done", that's it.

p.s. years ago a chinese teacher once explained me that the correct translation of Tuei Sho is 'hands who TOUCH (vital points)', laughing hard about the official 'pushing hands' version.
Chang Man Cheng told R.W. Smith "You have to be kind to the blind man".

european,

If a buddhist takes a vow of harmlessness, does it interfere with them doing what has to be done?

Actually European, I asked about your real name because i'm curious to meet you (if we haven't met already). If you, like the unamed adept teaching in his small dojo, are in paris, then drop me a line.

Thanks, European, for pointing out there is nothing wrong with being reptilian. It is just another stage of life as is everything else, no better, no worse. As for buddhist monks and vows of harmlessness, those old stories of shaolin monks were probably about fighters who masqueraded as monks at the monasteries for protection, until the manchus got tired of it. I mean, look at them now. Communist-appointed monks?? Give me a break!

SANTIMONIOUS TWUDDLE PEDDLED BY PRIGGISH GURUS!!

Well, that didn't work out well... got to learn how to spell.

That's "sanctimonious twaddle".

Jeff,
I don't have an answer for your question. But you'll find out.

Edward,
I left Paris 11 yrs. ago when my french girlfriend left me. Anyway, I'm quite sure we haven't met, since I reestabilshed myself in a place where I don't meet many foreigners.

Buddhism is an atheist system, ther's no God telling you what is right or wrong. That's why I cannot see any better system incorporating fighting monks: they did what had to be done (or at least some of them). The original Shaolin monastery, as many of you perfectly know, was destroyed by the army of an envious emperor in the mid XVIII century. The actual 'monks' are superb governative athletes.