B K Frantzis - Ba gua is the deepest, most complex and ultimately the most effective of the three internal systems

Tim's Discussion Board: Ba Gua Zhang : B K Frantzis - Ba gua is the deepest, most complex and ultimately the most effective of the three internal systems

   By Tai Chi BOB on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 02:16 am: Edit Post

Did I say there was something wrong with a DVD.
Did I say he did anything wrong.
I said he refused to refund me money on BS merchandise he sold me.
Let me say there is something wrong with Mike Patterson.
I said he owes me money he would not refund on merchandise- it was not a DVD (a VHS was comprised in the overall mechandise- It was refunded (he thought I might corrupt his sacraed lineage) and it was a bit before DVDs were mainstream.

overall it is a bit circumstantial and involved to put on this board.
If he's your kinda' guy then good for you.

Anyway all that is way in my rear view mirror.

And unfortunately tonight I do not have time
to berate others, commit character assassination and rehash old laundry for no reason.

Mike Patterson was a jerk to me, I do not like him. I am not impressed that he took first in one tournament when he was a teenager. I believe he has not grown past it.
He is arrogant.
Howz that for a off the
Topic of disscussion news flash?


   By Bob #2 on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 02:47 am: Edit Post

would you like him in a box?
would you like him with a fox?

   By Ron Gavett on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 02:56 am: Edit Post

Tai chi Bob??? No doubt, he is all that and more.

Putting that aside, I gotta hit you guys with a new bitch...or couple of bitches.

The worst qualities of teachers have to do with bullshit as Gary Romel & Chris McKinley brag about their bagua and Dim Mak programs:

CHECK this
"with the exception of Gary Romel, I am the ONLY teacher in the state
capable of teaching the full Dim-Mak system, Baguazhang, and Yang Hao Chuan
Taiji. And he only got here last year."

I wish I could be the ONLY qualified teacher in the state capable of telling lies like this.

   By Tai Chi BOB on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 09:14 pm: Edit Post

I do not like him
not in a box
not with a fox
not eating vioxx
not performing dim maks

Tai Chi BOB the one and only
It is I whom is the real and only phoney.
The rest are all just phoney, phoneys
Phoney Phoneys and their perposterous chronies
Tai Chi BOB I am
and for the rest I don't give a good gawd damn

   By Chris McKinley on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 05:47 pm: Edit Post

Hi all,

I was told by a friend that my name had popped up on the forum here, so I thought I'd drop in and provide a little clarity on what looks to be another typically boring Kumar-bashing thread. Quite a few of you already know who I am and what I'm about, seeing that I've been active on neijia forums for the last 10 years. Being that I've apparently received newfound status as a bitch, I thought I'd provide a little background on exactly why our friend Ron thinks so.

A few weeks ago, I got an email from a "Bob Smith 007" on a hotmail account (I know...anything from a hotmail account should be an instant red flag for potential trolling) who said he liked my comments and would like to study Bagua, too, and also asking if I was the only one in Oklahoma, so I replied only one of what? He quoted something from me from early 2001 in which I was responding to an online questioner that, to my knowledge, I was the only person in Oklahoma at that time, apart from Gary Romel, capable of teaching a combination of Dim-Mak, Baguazhang and Yang Hao Chuan Taijiquan. It is apparently this statement that Ron is referencing in claiming that I have somehow lied.

At the very worst, that statement would simply be factually inaccurate, and in all likelihood would long ago have been challenged by the other individuals in this state who are known neijia practitioners and/or teachers. I have since learned that, at the time that I made that statement, there was also one other individual in the state, Brad Tyree (sp?), who might possibly have been able to make a similar claim, though he was teaching only semi-privately at that time and to date has not made such claim publicly himself. Eventually Ed Henne and Marcus Brinkman found there way to Oklahoma as well, both names worth mentioning in the context of this discussion.

I'll leave out some of the childish and rude comments that he used, but in "Bob"'s next email, he then began claiming confusion because apparently Gary Romel had told him that he (Gary) had got his credentials before I did. He also asked if he should study with a Stan Johnson instead. My initial reaction was to chuckle a bit, since there aren't any accredited courses at Martial Arts University where someone might receive "credentials" in this particularly bizarre subject matter. I replied that I began my neijia training in 1982, which happens to be 2 years after Mr. Romel was born, to provide some context. I further said that I was not aware of anyone by the name of Stan Johnson locally, but that if he could teach Taijiquan, Baguazhang, and Dim-Mak with TCM theory included, that perhaps he ought to go and study with him.

"Bob" next emailed me saying that Gary had called me a liar and that Gary had claimed that he (Gary) was the "first number one disciple" of Erle Montaigue. I replied that, as most of you probably know, I have never had any affiliation with Erle Montaigue or his association, though I have defended the man and his practice on occasion. This is a matter of common knowledge to anyone who has read my thousands of posts over the years. Apparently, "Bob" couldn't be bothered to read any of the dozens of times I've publicly clarified my non-association with Mr. Montaigue. Whatever...no big deal.

Further, I pointed out the fact that, the very night previous to when he claims that Gary had supposedly called me a liar, Gary and I had got together for a few beers since Gary, who has been a friend for years, was leaving soon for further Air Force officer training, and that we had discussed the fact that "Bob" had apparently been email-trolling Gary recently as well. We laughed at what an all-too-common and ridiculous trolling it was for someone to pretend to be interested in training in order to try and dig up dirt to use in stirring up trouble, and how almost every teacher we know who has an online presence gets these kinds of bogus emails all the time, usually from some bored wannabe trying to make the world into a TMA vs. MMA competition.

I made clear to Bob though that, at this point, if Bob were still interested in possibly training, my policy with everyone is to first hold an initial two-way interview in-person so that we could each determine equally if the training situation would be a good "fit". Since "Bob", if that was his real name, was in no way legitimately interested in training with me, he conveniently ignored that offer and instead came back with how he was going to post what a big liar I was to his favorite forum, Shen do do, as he put it. Yawn.

In the interest of fairness, benefit of the doubt, and because if he's anything like what he describes himself as, he could likely stomp my ass into a right jolly pile of goo, I'm going to assume that Ron Gavett is not the "Bob" from my emails and that he's just read this tripe somewhere on some forum. As an occasional trainer of LEO/military personnel, I'd also like to thank him for putting it on the line for the people of whichever jurisdiction he works. Good on you for that.

Though what yet another email troll thinks about me isn't really important, I'd still prefer to answer questions about me or my practice in public when appropriate. Either way, that about sums it up. Back to your regularly scheduled Kumar-bashing.


   By Jamie on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 10:12 pm: Edit Post

"The video is a demonstration of the real time fighting/defense abilities of Yang Tai chi and is available from his website - www.energyarts.com I think? It says that he takes unrehearsed attacks from 2 TKD instructors, just wondered how good it was."?

I just purchased the video to see for myself and the idea of unrehearsed may be true however I believe the much smaller TKD instructor was more than a willing "fallguy".
the video got a bit gay with the massage stuff.
Overall I can not recommend the DVD to anybody not even Tai Chi BOB or his nursing home trailer park class somewhere near fantasyland.
The DVD was overwhelmingly simplistic.
Also it was not a "Gracie challenge" by TKD instructors on the ability of BKF.
I will be clear this is not a "bashing" of anything but the quality and content of the DVD itself.
directly put-
I did not find this DVD helpful at all.
Tim Cartmel's
-Effortless Combat Throws-
(By the way if anybody has a copy of the book for sale let me know)
Also in Jin Iizmi sensei's Soft Judo DVDs
THAN IN THE BKF YANG APPLICATION VIDEO and the later two have no Tai Chi affiliation.

   By John Newton Chittenden,IV on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 04:41 pm: Edit Post


Just because you feel jipped does not mean you have to rag on someone, especially when it was yourself that skipped over the fine print on his site, which clearly says NO REFUNDS.

As for you comments on Patterson's achivements, you are very far off base. And tho you claim it's in your "rear view mirror" and that you have no time to talk about it, you did just that because it DOES still bug you... Grow up.

BTW, Patterson won the KuoShu TWICE, by knockouts (not points), and has trained MANY that followed in doing the same. You clearly have no clue about KuoShu. He also competed in Thailand before the tourneys there got softer. And yes, he won there too. If Patterson is as unimpressive as you say, why were you buying DVD's from him in the first place? Har har har.

   By Tai Chi BOB on Sunday, September 03, 2006 - 09:11 pm: Edit Post

bite me

I never said I bought a DVD from him.
So har har har...

As far as the legalese (you don't know about the circumstance) I will just say his reluctance to refund my purchase in full has reserved my right to complain.
I purposely have left it all loose as not to rag on him. But since creeps like you keep stepping up to put there own foot in there mouth I will say- you, Tobbe and Ron Garrett should get together and have a Mike Patterson love fest.
You have a talent for mixing two different subjects
But since you feel so compelled to defend Mike Patterson's honor and his sacred lineage then go to Las Vegas and train for the big fights there.
City Boxing does and is still able to give good deals, teach martial arts and not as you say JIP anybody. All that and no small print.
Do you think any of the students at City Boxing defended their teachers credentials on or off online?
I admit I do not know his credentials as well as you. I do know an arrogant ass when I meet one and you and Mike hold that tradition together well.
Honestly you sound like one of his students, a perspective lineage holder?
Maybe a drunken looser that hangs around in the park.
If you are a drunken looser then I appreciate contribution to the community, and even reserve a bit of respect for you.
However, If your a standard bearer of the Mike Patterson sacred lineage then you have no community that you have contributed to except the one that revolves around his greatness, and I do not care for you or your kind at all.

   By John Newton Chittenden,IV on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 12:54 pm: Edit Post

You admit any "respect" you'd glean towards me is being weighted between whether or not I'm a drunken "looser" or a lineage kisser. What difference could it possibly make to someone who hides behind a handle?

I would be most interested in hearing about YOUR credentials. It might give you the clout that you are feigning here. Upon thumbing through a few of your past posts, it's pretty clear you're comfy throwing rocks from within your glass house.

   By Tai Chi BOB on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 01:17 pm: Edit Post

Bite me
I was being funny when I said RESPECT for you
RESPECT hey isn't that M. Patterson's new invention?
It is even more stupid that you would continue your conversation with a cartoon character.
The entire premise is on what a good fighter M.Patterson and others in the San Diergo area are.
This is the dribble that exponds from your scholl near the park? Talk crap on the net to be big. Fight with fictiociuos characters to prove your worht.
I have a few freinds in the San Diego area
Tell me the one school your at and I will have a friend stop by and visit your lanky artist ass so you can defend your honor.
My friends canbe found at UNDISPUTED on UNIVERSITY please stop by and make your point.

   By Bob #2 on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 01:44 pm: Edit Post

Have a little respect for yourself! Starting two consecutive posts with 'Bite Me' is incommonly weak. Mispelling the word school complete sinks your dingy. Offering to have a 'friend' stop by to follow through on a mispelled threat hardens the concret on your feet.

I don't agree with either of you. But you're sunk little buddy.

   By John Newton Chittenden,IV on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 02:13 pm: Edit Post

School near a park? I have no idea what you're talking about. I couldn't care less about how I'm percieved to anyone, anyways. Much less to someone so far off the mark.

Still waiting to hear about who YOU are. Quite telling that when you were asked, you could only bring up how badass your friends are. Seems to me that you are the one hung up on honor of some sort, but you can't even ante up your friggin name.

   By Tai Chi BOB on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 02:46 pm: Edit Post

Lick my BOOBs
I am BOB
Tai Chi BOB sometimes BOB the Builder
BOB fron BOB Bill Head
Supreame lineage holder of the BOB school of Tai Chi and Yoga Medicine.
I teach at Deanza Trailer park and at quince and Park on Saturdfay at 9am.

You have my name. I have never said I was anything but a loudmouth drunk. You keep changing the subject mutating the conversation.
Basically now you want to know who I am.
I AM TAI CHI BOB you f-n idiot.

The thread since your so good at looking through the post had to do with the Fighting ability of Mike Patterson and some other characters in the Southern Californiua area so The entire thread is based on how BADASS your friend and teacher Mike is.
I say his achievements are decades old in that area.
The intire defamation centers on a buisness deal that I say soured and you with no knowledge of the deal feel compelled to defend. So it is you who are exponding on how BADASS your freinds are
If you want to refund my money in full stop by any of the places I mentioned-
our I can have a collector stop by in my behalf being I am not in the vicnity of creepland to do so.
If you have no intention of refunding my money then kiss my Headmaster.
So if you want to meet me I will be in the Park on Satuday 9am Quince and 6th or I can stop by your school, unless your hiding behind something like whatever school you are claiming

   By John Newton Chittenden,IV on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 03:40 pm: Edit Post

Soured biz deal my butt. His site says refunds for damaged or defective tapes or discs only. So unless that was the case - which you are not saying (shrug) you should quit whining about it. That's about as far as I'll concede here.

Me asking you who you are, and what yer creds are hardly translates into the desire to meet with you. But now you seem hell-bent on fishing me in to do just that, Why?

   By Tai Chi BOB on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 04:44 pm: Edit Post

I know you are or were Mike's student.
If I remember you are that real tall guy that did the art work on his T-shits.
If not that guy I am convinced by your attitude you are of his ilk and school. And that you have a habit of stirring up Bull Schiet from the comfort of your couch.
If you want to refund my money then you know where I am at.
if not YAWN...
& Bite Me
end of thread

   By robert on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 05:30 pm: Edit Post

T shits...lol

i wish i couldve taken some classes from the guy when he was still here in la mesa, his form looks pretty good.

tai chi bob, still up to the same old crap eh?

   By John Newton Chittenden,IV on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 06:29 pm: Edit Post

Wow, I "stirred" something up? Just your insecurity, chump. You must be one of the wash-outs of Patterson's school. No wonder you have a stick in yer arse over him.

   By John Chittenden on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 08:26 pm: Edit Post

Well, anyways, upon checking with some colleagues, I now know that you are nothing but a low-down liar, "bob"... I actually know who IS down at Balboa Park on Saturdays... But I'll keep an eye out for you, and your students (lol) anyways...

   By Tai Chi BOB on Monday, September 04, 2006 - 11:40 pm: Edit Post

¡§excellent people, good intentions, great potential.. and getting better all the time..¡¨

TaiChiBob, Orlando SynerChi, Tai Chi Practitioners

   By robert on Saturday, September 09, 2006 - 12:39 pm: Edit Post

i used to go to balboa park on saturdays... i wonder if ive seen mr bob before, ive seen some weirdo meditating with headphones on lol.

   By robert on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 08:06 pm: Edit Post

hey bob are you that choy li fut guy? hahaha.

   By Tai Chi BOB on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 01:50 am: Edit Post

Tai Chi BOB



   By robert on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 07:46 pm: Edit Post

do you practice with the jing institute of chinese ma's by any chance? or rogelio?

   By Tai Chi BOB on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 05:15 pm: Edit Post

Did I say Balboa Park?
I ment Rhoar Park, and I practice on Bonita Road with Master Kim, and some other guys at J street pier

Where do you?

   By robert on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 12:10 am: Edit Post

rhoar park they have ma group there? when do you guys meet up? i should stop by, say hello and see what y'all are up to. ? another nice place to train is morrison pond.

j street? you mean the guy who does tai chi? i thought that he doesnt go there anymore.

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