Archive through December 30, 2004

Tim's Discussion Board: Tai Ji Quan : Yang Family Hidden Form?: Archive through December 30, 2004
   By Bob #2 on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 01:38 pm: Edit Post

so- what's up with that old guy's neck?

   By Richard Dunn (Unregistered Guest) on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 05:10 pm: Edit Post

Absolutely nothing! there are many photos of him at the same source and you will see his deportment is quite normal.

   By Bob #2 on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 05:37 pm: Edit Post

so, doing his martial arts make his head pull into his torso?

was he ever in a serious car crash?

   By Richard Dunn (Unregistered Guest) on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 06:22 pm: Edit Post

Why don't you read the thread if you haven't already. You seem to be just fishing for conflict which also seems to be the purpose behind most of your posts. I am not here to teach you and I have told you enough times your observations are incorrect. There is nothing wrong with his deportment he is using a technique known as turtle back, which was part of Tai-Chi pre Cheng Fu. It is part of the vehicle for energetic release, used mostly in Fajin. As I said there are many photos of him standing normally on the same site as the clips.

   By Bob #2 on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 06:29 pm: Edit Post

Fishing for conflict, indeed. Are all my observations incorrect?

I'm certainly glad we don't vanpool together.

   By Richard Dunn (Unregistered Guest) on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 06:42 pm: Edit Post

Yes your observations in this case are incorrect, all of them. You may not like what he is doing, you may consider it to be bad MA in your terms, but please accept he is doing it deliberately for his own purposes. The purpose of which I have tried to explain to you all, you can then take it or leave it, argue for or against it, as is your wont.

   By Bob #2 on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 07:09 pm: Edit Post

but if my 'wont' is to ask questions about it you'll just tell me my observations are wrong.

I accept he is doing it deliberately for his own purposes- but that guy who stands in front of the grocery eating earthworms out of his shorts is doing it for his own purposes too- I find both extremely compelling and confusing.

But, to keep you from bursting a vessel I'll just keep my questions to myself and will just sit here wish this was a 'discussion board'.

   By Richard Dunn (Unregistered Guest) on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 07:40 pm: Edit Post

A discussion means that the conversation progresses, it doesn't just ferment around your desire to see someone confirm to you that he is deformed, no matter how many times you are told he is not. If you actually wish to converse more on the subject of why he is doing it then the discussion moves on, though that has already been explained. The choice is to try to be either constructive or destructive.

   By Bob #2 on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 11:45 pm: Edit Post

then you agree he appears to be deformed (my initial observation- which, I might add, I worded more kindly). Therefore my observation wasn't 'wrong' or 'incorrect' but simply an observation. My deduction, based on my observation, is what you should attack.

Now that the conversation has progressed;
I've got female octogenarians in my Sunday morning Tai Ji class that could beat the dickens out of that turtle-necked gentleman. And I'm willing to pay him upwards of $50 if I'm wrong.

(it may be several days before reply. My power is being shut off at midnight because of a clerical dispute with the City of Santa Monica).

   By sleepydragon (Unregistered Guest) on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 12:44 am: Edit Post

Then you should save the $50.00 and use it to settle the dispute.

Hey... Look at me. I am doing one liners now too.

   By Bob #2 on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 01:08 am: Edit Post

The dispute is over $18.53 I have the money, its the principle of the thing. On my last bill they unfairly charged me for a "UT LITY TAX" and I don't even know what a UT LITY is. I called them and they didn't know either.

You sheep might pay anything they put in print but I'm shrewd and I know how to hit them where it hurts- right in the bottom line.

(by the way drowsylizard, that was two lines- and one of the lines was 'look at me' which we can't because you don't have sense enough to register your ID and post a photo- how long have you been posting on this board without registering?).

   By sleepydragon (Unregistered Guest) on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 01:12 am: Edit Post

I really admire you Bob#2.

You are quite an inspiration to many. I hope to one day meet you and buy you a Dr Pepper.

Thanks to you I'm going to stop being a chi-hugging butt-tucking turtle-neck follower and learn to really fight like a man, a HUman.

Thank you fondly,

   By The poster formerly known as sleepydragon (Unregistered Guest) on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 01:38 am: Edit Post

That was a good one Bobby boy... I now see why I should register, because any one can use my name.

I believe I will and one day buy you that Dr. Pepper.

By the way... I knows how to fight. Can you even believe I was ranked 3rd in Florida in 96(I think)eh... I am getting old.

   By Bob #2 on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 01:41 am: Edit Post

what happened-?- the 4th contestant couldn't make it to the fight that day?

   By El Chamuco (Unregistered Guest) on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 02:29 am: Edit Post

My bellwether and observation is that if Tim doesn't join the discussion with a person or group within a few posts. The person or topic being discussed is bullshit.

   By Michael Andre Babin on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 - 10:26 am: Edit Post

... and sometimes the bullshit is witty and/or interesting and sometimes it's anything but!

As to the actual topic --- it seems to me that any method of transmitting power can work for those who practise them obsessively, especially for demonstration purposes.

If it was really spectacularly effective compared to other methods of body mechanics for fighting, I suspect that it would be more commonly found or observed than in one man's classes.

I have to admit that the idea of cultivating a "turtle-back" for any reason seems somewhat strange to me. But Chinese metaphors are sometimes not what they seem to the uninitiated.

   By Tim on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 12:27 am: Edit Post

Sometimes (most often) things are improved with time.

Just because something is older, doesn't necessarily mean it is better. Usually it is the contrary. Talented individuals with practical experience will cause their respective disciplines to evolve. Guns are more effective than slings.

Taijiquan might have been done totally differently "pre-Yang Chengfu," (although there is no evidence this is the case). If Yang Chengfu, Sun Lutang, Chen Fake and other experts of the early last century all saw fit to modify the practice, perhaps it is an improvement.

Positive evolutionary changes can occur quite rapidly given the appropriate catalyst. For example, unarmed hand to hand fighting has evolved more in the last ten years (mainly because of the catalyst of MMA and reality fighting events) than it had in the previous millennium.

   By Richard Dunn (Unregistered Guest) on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 05:57 am: Edit Post

I just provided the evidence in this thread why are you ignoring it?

   By Michael Andre Babin on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 08:55 am: Edit Post

... probably for the same reasons that you aren't acknowledging our comments.

Seeing one person do something on video proves nothing beyond the fact that one person can do something on video.

   By Richard Dunn (Unregistered Guest) on Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 09:37 am: Edit Post

What about the history of that person, do you know of any sources more directly connected to pre Cheng Fu training than this, if so who. Do you recognise the form being demonstrated? do you recognise it even as Tai-Chi? You are welcome to doubt and all comments have been acknowledged and countered. Now put your own alternative to the information I present. Put up a source for clips and lineage for pre Cheng Fu training and provide your proof and then we can all decide on the validity of your dissention to what is being presented.