Archive through May 13, 2008

Tim's Discussion Board: Tai Ji Quan : Su Dong Chen: Archive through May 13, 2008
   By Jake Burroughs on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 05:47 pm: Edit Post

On the contrary Kelly Tim has world class grapplers in his school weekly. Many of his advanced students are very, very accomplished at what they do. I am not very good, but I still had over 12 years of experience when I met Tim.
The people you see in his DVD's are top notch guys that would wipe you, and your average joe all over the mat! Not beginner students.
I HIGHLY encourage you to go to open mat with Tim's group so you can FEEL, instead of mentally masturbate on the world wide interweb!
These silly ideas people still cling onto in the CMA about defeating multiple attackers is assanine! If you get jumped by three people your best bet if unarmed is to practice your run-fu!

   By garrett stack on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 06:14 pm: Edit Post

Maybe Tim cant walk on water , but Im pretty sure he can at any given moment decide whether or not he has bones , can levitate out from under people , actually has another pair of hands for feet and is double jointed everywhere

or maybe

is a world class grappler who trains with world class grapplers , competes, coaches competitors is on the mat up to 40 hours a week teaching as well as making time for personal training and conditioning.
If someone is a professional full time BJJ black belt thats what they do . Thats who people want to train with .

The people he competes against are at that level too man. You go to Tim as a student and he will do his best to give you what he can to bring you too that level too as would any coach or teacher worth his salt

   By Tim on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 08:14 pm: Edit Post


"Does this mean that you aren't really good because the people you were competing against weren't at your level?"

I never said that Mr. Su is not good, quite the contrary, I believe he is an outstanding martial artist.

What I said was demonstrations implying one unarmed man can defeat multiple opponents is meaningless, and misleading.

When you get some real world experience, you'll understand what I mean.

   By Kelly Crofts-Johnson on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 10:18 pm: Edit Post

Haha, wow that was an onslaught. It's all good. Well it seems like people took offense to what I said so I apologize. I am not trying to imply that Tim doesn't train hard. In fact a good deal of that was meant as a compliment. I do respect Tim and I stand that if Tim were to take on three average Joes (no one with weapons), he would win.

"Many of his advanced students are very, very accomplished at what they do."
"The people he competes against are at that level too man."

So he should be well prepared for the average Joe don't you think?

"If you get jumped by three people your best bet if unarmed is to practice your run-fu!"

Your best bet in any fight, whether against one or two, is to get out of there. We don't train for the best situation though do we? We train for the worst. What if you do get jumped by three guys and you're cornered? Also, who said that he advocates staying and fighting? Why can't one use some skill to get to a position where he can run?

"These silly ideas people still cling onto in the CMA about defeating multiple attackers is assanine!"

A lot of "so-called" tactical martial arts also teach how to handle multiple opponents.

Tim - I have meant no offense at all. I respect you quite a bit and "Many of his advanced students are very, very accomplished at what they do." just proves that you are quite skilled.

   By Tim on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 03:05 am: Edit Post


None taken.

   By Joseph G Bellone on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 08:59 am: Edit Post

"Three average Joe's are built like treetunks..."

Tim - I got 10 now, I need some help starting in a couple of week!!!

The illustrious.

   By Jake Burroughs on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 01:34 pm: Edit Post

I have yet to see anyone who convincingly deals with multiple aggressors! I know a lot of people are teacing such things, but IMO none of it is anything special, and the majority of what I have seen is with weak attackers, where it is staged.

   By Tim on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 02:27 pm: Edit Post


I'm on it, I haven't had a chance to film, this weekend for sure.

Are you ready to advertise here?

   By Kelly Crofts-Johnson on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 06:49 pm: Edit Post

Here is something else to talk about as well; if they were able to attack more realistically, so could he. You notice he wasn't doing all he could do either. That leg sweep at the end could have been a knee kick. the kick to the stomach of that one guy could have been a kick to the nuts. That slap to the head could have been a temple shot or throat shot. etc. etc. etc. Who knows though, maybe he would get his ass handed to him, haha.

   By Tobbe on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 06:59 pm: Edit Post

About Su dong chen

Iīve got the dvd thatīs about Taiji where he shows applications fom the form - Iīve read somewhere thatīs the Chen pan ling - form but what do I know - anyway he covers some applications from the form

This is from the opening - move in the form where he covering different ranges

Thereīs a lot of applications shown but if you donīt know japanense ( and thereīs no subtitles) itīs a bit confusing - all that said - apart from The Effortless throws -video itīs the best dvd on "IMA" I have seen when it comes to applications and again that said thereīs not many "IMA" - dvds out there dealing with the martial side of the art (taiji that is) - so I guess one have to wait until Mr. Cartmell finally makes one
If I recall where was some talk about it on the board some time ago

   By Dave C. on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 10:39 pm: Edit Post

His earlier "Neijia" DVD is a bit better IMO than that taiji DVD.

As far as I can tell, Su learned the Chen Pan-ling form from Hong Yi-xiang but he has modified the form so much that it now doesn't resemble the CPL form at all IMO.

Here's a clip I put up of the neijiaquan DVD:

   By Kelly Crofts-Johnson on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 04:53 pm: Edit Post

Well I just surfed around on his website quite a bit. Pretty cool stuff. Seems like he knows his .

   By Richard S. on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 01:48 pm: Edit Post

I don't know why this Su guy is showing multiple attacker scenarios using CMA. Everyone knows Aikido is the ultimate martial art for multiple attackers! Just watch a few Steven Seagal movies :-)

   By Richard S. on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 01:52 pm: Edit Post

Why do you all keep referring to Tim as a world class grappler? I am pretty sure he can still punch really freakin hard. Maybe world class martial arts teacher would be better.

   By Tim on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 07:42 pm: Edit Post

Thanks Richard, you should be in charge of marketing!

   By The Iron Bastard on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 08:09 pm: Edit Post

Isn’t it interesting that Tim a World Class Martial Artist, would talk a little smack about another World Class Martial Artist, Su Dong-Chen, only when he is now residing back in Tokyo. Certainly not, while Master Su was here in LA for three years, Right.

   By Tim on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 01:19 am: Edit Post


First off, there was no talking "smack" about Mr. Su, read my posts above.

Secondly, I think demos pitting one unarmed man against multiple attackers are misleading, no matter who does them. It's my personal opinion, you'll have to live with it.

Finally, Why would you assume I have any idea where Mr. Su lives? Wait, I think I've figured it out, you're implying if I said I didn't like his multiple opponent demo while he was in California, he would come to my school, kick down my sign and challenge me to a death match. Time to snap back into reality Bob.

   By Jake Burroughs on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 11:29 am: Edit Post

I have never heard Tim talk "smack" about anyone and anything that was not true common knowledge, over the last 6 years. Get a life bro!

   By Ventura on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 11:48 am: Edit Post

Shenwu open mat is from 3 to 6 every Saturday, Bob. Just FYI in case Su comes back to L.A. or any of his students ever develop a spine.

   By jean paul khoi pease on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 04:24 pm: Edit Post

the straw man fallacy strikes again iron bastard.

attacking a position Tim simply does not take nor did he imply so.

in a combat related analogy it would be like chasing an opponents hands to clinch or stick before he has engaged.

usually you end up getting hit in the face.