Hi all --

I've been standing in zhan zhuang for about 4 months now, starting with 5 minutes in wu chi and ramping up to 20-30 minutes a day in one or more early postures (standing pole, etc.) after doing Yang style taiji for seven years. The benefits from zhan zhuang have thus far been subtle but very clear, and I hope to continue Yi Quan studies. However, after a month or so, my left ankle began hurting, particularly during Rollback positions in TC. I adjusted my stance in zhan zhuang to put more weight on my right foot after checking out my hips in a mirror -- this resulted in slightly less pain in my left ankle combined with fresh new pain in my right. What gives?

I studied some zhan zhuang with Kam Lee in Florida, but would benefit greatly from a teacher. This much I know -- but does anybody have any thoughts about this in the meantime? Something to try? I can feel my Achilles tendon tightening when I'm standing, and when I try to relax it, my focus goes goofy and my stance gets thrown out of whack. For now, I'm practicing the standing postures while seated. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Don't know about the ankle, but watch out for those achilles, if you damage them, you will never be right again. Tread carefully there.

Perhaps stay off the feet for several weeks (minimum) and gently work back into it. Perhaps what you feel is streching which is ok, but easy to over do it and be injured.

Taylor,
Just a few questions,how old are you,do you have any illness,are you overweight,how active is your sex life? I know those are personal questions but I might have an answer to your question.If you don't want to answer on the board feel free to email me at prayingman@cox.net
Ed H.

Your foot has two functions; supports body weight and works as a lever to propel the body (weight) forward. The foot is segmented so it can move more easily over uneven surfaces, than say a single bone could. The downside of being segemented is in order to hold weight it needs to be an arch (that's why fallen arches/flat feet are not very good), the shape is maintained through the interlocking of bones, strong ligaments and the pull of muscle tendons like the achilles (ligaments and tendons give the springy feel). The structure makes for three arches that together give the 'half-dome' look and should distribute weight fairly evenly to the heel and toes (bodyweight carried in mostly in ankles and heel then distributed).

If your are standing around for a while like waiting for the bus, or trying to act casual in a line-up at the cop station, then you will put excessive strain on the the ligaments and tendons because your muscles will be inactive (lots of pressing, not much pulling). That's a dead stance, have to be active, alive primed to pounce like a bag snatcher or Bob #2 on a little old lady, not like some-one in a queue to see Ricki Lake. Of course you could just be deformed.

to add to the confusion (if it strikes you that way): i've had some injuries, and feel that dropping the weight through the knee/foot is a great help.

to add (confusion) to what ed and chris have said: are you dropping the weight *through* the foot?

this really amounts to, imo, good use of joints. they are meant to be levers against something, not repositories of tension.

my experience is that stretching (achilles or whatever) is a help, at the same time good usage helps more than anything. i speak as someone who has been really compromised by injury, and at least partially recovered. best...

well, hope it's some help.

imho, dropping weight and springing are yin/yang..and thus chris's advice is really good. but you have to drop before you can spring. at the same time dropping wihtout spring energy is "dead." hope this is not too confusing, and helps. but if you are seriously hurting, lay off. i've experienced that. fwiw.

Just FYI, don't know if it relates to your problem, but I'm starting to think I may have caused some minor damage to my right achilles tendon doing stair runs with a benelli some time back. I find static stretches aggravate it, but ballistic stretches, such as slow straight-leg kicks, make it go away as long as I keep it up. I'm told this is because static stretching creates scar tissue which is actually less pliable, and this principle is the core of russian ballistic stretching regimens. I'm gonna buy a book on the subject and read up.

Taylor,

as I suggest all my friends, in pain or not, visit regularly a good osteopath who is able to controll your mouth too (the bite).
As soon as the doc has 'repaired' your posture I believe you will greatly improve your z.z. training.

regards,
the european

Taylor,
You might find "Pain Free" by Pete Egoscue useful.

Everyone --

Thanks for all the advice -- great responses for such a goofy little problem. I have a feeling I was/am sitting too far back on my heels to avoid putting my knees out over my toes. I'm too skinny for it to be a weight thing, and am in fine health otherwise. I also broke my left big toe in a fairly spectacular fashion in judo randori some months back, and may be compensating with my ankle to avoid pain there. In any case I'm taking a few weeks off of all of it before I gently reemerge into the process. One step forward, two steps back. I'll check out "Pain Free," thanks Tim.

This is probably the kind of thing where a good teacher could straighten me out. I'll email Tim to see about setting up a private session.

Thanks again, all.

That toe injury could definitely be the source of your problem. Just a couple weeks ago I got my big toe smashed and was keeping the weight to the back of my foot wherever I walked and in one day my ankle was in a bunch of pain.

hi, taylor,

actually judo randori was where i got my worst ankle injury, many years ago. the mistake i made, not knowing anything at all, was not to take care of it, so it developed into a hip/back compensatory thing. much misery. it took chiro, rolfing, and---(most helpfully, believe it or not) tai chi chuan/nei gong/lots of standing, to fix it all (almost--i'm 96% there--everything's gone but a bit of tightness deep in the hip).

i was told by an osteopath (actually two of them) that my ankle would never function correctly again, and i would always have some pain/disability. now i have no pain, equal flexibility and strength in both ankles--and incomparably more flexibility and strength through the legs/hips/back than i did when i went into see these guys. doctors, bless their hearts, don't know about self-healing much. thank god they were wrong. never underestimate the self-healing you can accomplish, if you approach it right. that's the key, imo. i'm not knocking osteopaths, but i'm not sure they see the body as an inter-related whole, where one thing affects another (either positively or negatively.)

as you point out (and i agree) compensation is a b**ch. i think that's where we can get messed up, more than the injury per se. the compensatory thing was why i was asking if you were dropping weight *through* the foot. i know in retrospect i wasn't, and held in my hip eventually too.

anyway if the injury isn't too long ago, chances are you can fix it, imo, without too much hassle.
sorry to go on so long; i have a lot of sympathy for these kinds of things having fought them

best to you in your recuperation...

Chris Seaby,

I disagree with your comment about flat feet being not good. The arches on my feet are flat as flat can be but I can do anything something with arches can do.

Having flat feet isn't the end of the world. The first step is to get rid of any arch supports you use cause that only weakens your foot over time(like glasses/contact lenses but you need those to drive). You can strengthen your arches with excercises and standing in stake holding. Learn to work with what you have.

In terms of ankle pain: there are tons qi gong excercises to help with realignment of the joint BUT they will have limited results if you have a major misalignment in your ankle. I recommend you go see an acupuncturist that knows how to do bone setting and you should be fine. Acupuncture by itself doesn't work well if there is a deformity and works much better when the subluxated joint is put back in place. California is filled with acupuncturists.