Pl.ease dont tell me for rooting as a fighter I move and move fast Dont tell me for power how can this produce power WELL??? any answers

G Jones,

This is like asking what's a truck for? And please don't tell me things like for hauling loads easily from point A to point B. For how can a truck do this?

Standing practice IS done for rooting, power, balance, & good skeletal alignment. These four things are all inter-related (dependant upon each other for maximum efficiency... just as all of the essential parts of a truck are inter-related).

OK Mr. Fighter, when you move you move fast; but when you strike, knock-down, or throw you are momentarily rooted, & in good balance with good skeletal alignment for max power, or your technique is less efficient: less powerful.

Such an inefficient technique may be powerful enough to do a job at hand, inspite of its inefficiency. However, the martial-art principle involved in good martial-art practice is to combine all forces available so as to be most efficient (as a small or weak man or woman against a large &/or tough one needs to make the most efficient -- skillful -- use of his or her movements in order to have a better chance at surviving, the martial-arts practitioner assumes that someday he or she will be the smaller or weaker person in a conflict... else there's no martial reason to practice anything).

Standing practice is geared towards this end result. All stand-up martial arts have some form of standing practice at its most basic level (naturally -- because it determines how one generates power).

So how can such produce power? Even though this has already been covered throughout various postings, I'll briefly introduce you to some key concepts:

1) Standing practice involves balance, skeletal alignment, & rooting.

2) Without balance one cannot stand & consistently shift momentum in a desired direction -- & both rooting & skeletal alignment are put in jeopardy.

3) Without good skeletal allignment, balance & subsequently rooting are put into jeopardy by any moderate (sometimes even light) outside force.

4) Rooting is necessary for transferring power [like trying to push a moderately heavy crate: when well rooted & balanced one can push the crate easily by shifting body weight in a manner which allows the skeletal alignment -- supported at the root point(s) -- to support/absorb/rebound the counter-push-force (all that equal & opposite reaction to an action stuff); but if say the area where one's feet are is slippery while the crate is set firmly on dry ground, then the pusher ends up pushing his or herself away without any appreciable power transferred into the crate].

Likewise, a truck works most efficiently (i.e.: deliveres max power) when well rooted, balanced upright on all four tires, & with good alignment.

ever do any isometrics, they don't seem like they work, it's too simple, yet it's the fastist way to git strong, well, standing is isometrick. try standing for awhile, pretty soon your legs will start shaking, do you think they are doing that because they like it? why lift weights? why do cardio? cause we fight man, we need to be strong.

some day i'm going to learn how to spell, then i will be pleased!

The reason for standing is the big secret. 99.9% of people think it's just for developing relaxation, muscle development, all the logical things the Western mind can understand through the laws of physics.

Really, those are by-products of standing practice, but to say this goes against the rigid dogma of the 'internal strength' crew.

Find a good teacher who knows it and he (appologies ladies - they are usually men) will show you how it works. The Internet won't

And I ain't no qi lovin' hippy either.

"all the logical things the Western mind can understand through the laws of physics."

are you saying that physics can't exsplain what is happning during standing practice, or are you saying that there are some things that sciance cant' exsplain? are you saying that some stuff that happens dosent' happen? because sciance exsplains what happens, and dose a damn fine job of it. i think statements like this are funny, and i dont' know what your gitting at.

I'm saying there are some things beyond what science can explain.

"There are more things in heaven and earth,
Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Mr. G Jones, I'll tell you what I stand for


Dont •••• with my people. Thats what I stand for.

Divided, YOU fall.

"I'm saying there are some things beyond what science can explain."

Yeah. Like Dick Clark.

Now stop bogarting that roach.

I think the definition of science/physics is:

What we can currently measure with devices. Since we don't have have devices that can measure internal force, it can't be proved or disproved by physics/science.
However, when something can't be proved by science, we usually say it is bogus, which is not correct.
Science will never be able to explain everything because we will never have the devices that can measure everything.

what the •••• are you •••••••• cackling about?

I think what tailfether and gomer 73 are trying to say is that standing is a subtle practice. It is not just standing there like a plonker for 10 minutes a day then saying I'm done now I'm an invincible fighter. You train your eyes while standing not to blink and take in a large feild of vision. If you do any martial art that claims to be able to take on multiple opponents and they do not teach standing with techniques for training your eyes. Then when you throw down it wont matter how fast,strong whatever you are because you will not see his mate coming in from the side of you. There are also many psychological aspects of standing training which is why some martial arts masters used to make students stand in stances for years before teaching them anything else. People who stick ridgedly to one stance no matter the fighting distance or opponent or who use training stances to fight are not clever fighters. Equaly people who have no stance training no concept of rooting are not clever fighters either.

Also what I am saying is science can't explain everything.

It is like before electricity was "discovered" by science. If somebody walked up to you with a voltage zapper and zapped you, you would know something powerful happened to you even if you didn't know why.

However, some scientist at that time would say that goes against the law of physics(because they hadn't discovered electricity yet) so whoever felt the voltage is full of BS. You couldn't explain to the scientist that the effect is because of electricity because the scientist says science can prove electricity, so it doesn't exist.

Same thing with standing, although I don't fully understand the reasons, it doesn't make a difference. Because if someone isn't willing to admit that something outside their current knowledge exists, how can you explain this knowledge to somebody that refuses to comprehend this knowledge exists.

...Gomer73

That whole paragraph screams, "I am a nerd, I have a kilt, I am so cool, I know about Kung-fu."

and you screamed right back.

it's like the mating call of the Dorkapus Maximus.

Bob#2

I DO have a kilt. It's ok when you have legs like these!!

People have been practising standing meditation or standing practices for a long time and not only in conection to the martial arts. People have had the same mental capacity since recorded history began. they whould not invent A whole practice if there was no decernable benifits. Why do we feel that we are so advanced and anybody who lived more than a hundred years ago was a mind-adled savage. After all these people had time to practice there arts and think about how to improve them and did not rot their brains watching tv. People who modify or invent new martial arts today make me laugh especialy when they say 'I am making it more effective' etc. These people had nothing else to do but practice their martial art and had to use them for real against other people who had nothing better to do than practice martial arts. Again do we think we are so smart and can figure out the truth behind our arts that the old masters some how missed despite practicing much harded for longer periods of time and applying it to many real situations. We like to say all the stories about the power and martial arts skill of the old masters are exagerations and maybe some are. But nobody today trains like that so it is just arogence and a mentality of if I can not do it it is not possible IMHO.

Kenichi Sawai said one should not be concerned whether ones training methods are modern and progresive or traditional. Just throw yourself into it wholeheartedly.

Mark

do you think you train as hard as Sun lu tang or Dong hai chun or any other old MA master.

Bravo qui chu ji, I enjoyed your post. I agree with many of the things you wrote and am, myself, a proponent of standing in static postures to train the muscles of the body. A few points of recognition to attempt to put this in a contemporary context might assume the following: The past so-called masters lived lifestyles devoid of modern day conveniences (as qui stated). Those masters built up strength, endurance, and very functional strength over time. There was also a need to learn and practice kung fu. Much like the gunfighters of the old west, living in a kind of lawless society, the martial artists of the time had a real need to protect oneself or offer protection. It may also be of some worth to mention that those martial artists also practiced with weapons, which tends to raise the lethality of their art, something most martial artists tend to either ignore or be ignorant of. Everything we know of martial arts in the present has evolved with time and our changing culture. Any attempt at duplicating the training methods precisely as those of our predecessors may be an exercise in futility. You may ask yourself, in the present, what is the need to copy them, other than perhaps for prosperity sake? I would offer the modern combatant this, you make due with what is at your disposal. In an age of incredibly technologically advanced weaponry, and even primitive means employed in devious ways, one can truly gain the advantage without the need for standing for X amount of time. Therefore, I might ask myself is there a real need to copy the masters of old? A part of me would suggest, absolutely not. My belief is that as people change things, the culture then begins to define the generation, and vice versa. It is a kind of infinite trend in history and directly reflects on our society and at a microcosmic level, all separate and defined nation states. Many years ago it was offered that the use of firearms is or can be a martial art. I must completely agree with that. The people who develop the art are those who use this method of harming or killing someone on a routine basis (ie. LAPD SWAT, CAG, DEVGRU, mercenaries, terrorists, third world country soldiers, etc.). But here is the kicker, when comparing traditional martial arts, especially those devoid of weapons: In our age, standing practice is wonderful. It will strengthen your body and you will feel as though you are following in the footsteps of the kung fu masters. But also, in our age, standing practice will probably mean nothing to a real combatant. The real combatant is learning how to line his sites up and squeeze a trigger. The irony of the use of modern weaponry is that teaching how to use a firearm is very simple. The violence as telecast on t.v. shows countless hours of the use of firearms. Children will know what a weapon is and how it is used at a very early age, simply based on exposure to television and movies. A handicap person can pull out a pistol, aim at a target, squeeze the trigger, and eliminate a human being faster than a blink of the eye. There was no need to stand or meditate or anything, just to have enough arm strength to handle the weapon and enough strength in the finger to pull the trigger. See how easy that is. So in the context of modern day society, you can be a pumped up'd, roider, with the jiujitsu skills of a Gracie and still be eliminated by someone with a complete lack of physical skill or prowess and dispatched to your maker with alacrity. Hence, I issue my recommendation to anyone practicing the so-called martial arts: Enjoy the physical nature of what it is you are doing; understand that there is some practical application to it; understand that you will never be able to imitate the old Chinse masters, because you are not them and you do not live in there culture or time; and finally, real martial arts are defined by the age in which you live.

qui chu ji / Enos,

it's obvious you are the same person. But keep complimenting yourself because you are your only fan.

Shane