A big problem that some Shuai jiao angus have is that they don't keep an upright posture when sparring. They bend forward leaving their hips behind them and therefore too far from the opponents center.

Push hands allows people to stay upright because they're getting pushed into their natural position. But when getting pulled forward by a jacket grip it's much harder to keep upright

When doing internal arts it is stressed to move as a whole with your hips under you. This is how it was in ba gua and tai ji. I started walking the circle for old times sake and realized it is helpful in keeping posture. This doesn't not mean a ba gua guy, who never did anything else, can keep his posture in a jacket wrestling match. But a wrestler can be aided by the internal.

What do you guys think?

I think, correctly practiced Shuai Jiao is a complete standing throwing art all by itself.

I think the vast majority of the people that practice Internal martial arts would benefit from practicing Shuai Jiao.

You're right, Tim. Shuai jiao is complete. I was talking about circle walking as supplemental exercise to help with posture. I agree you don't need ba gua.

I think it's the player not the game.

If San Da adapted jackets, and groundfighting, I think it would be a very complete art.

I like how they combine standup striking with throws, but the fact that there are no jackets, and no groundfighting, really turns me off.

The jackets arent necessarily essential, but jackets will provide another dimension of challenge to the fight.

IMO, it is much easier to get a throw "No-Gi" since you dont have the other guy grabbing your jacket. It really makes a huge difference, which is why judo is mostly grip fighting.

In a real fight, grip fighting would be replaced by throwing strikes, and slipping in to get the throw.

I dont see much time to fight over grips in a real fight, unless your opp. isnt interested in hitting you..

That being said. Shuai jiao really is a complete standing throwing art. If you read up on the history, and the master of shuai jiao, (the iron butterfly) It is very inspiring.

BUT!!!

Shuai jiao has no groundfighting

On the other hand, shuai jiao throws are designed to take you out... If you survive the impact with the ground, then you will most likely get stomped on the face. lol. I guess they dont expect the fight to go to the ground..

In greco wrestling, its no gi, so you tend to see a lot of leg takedowns. In jacket wrestling, you tend to see more upper body takedowns.

Im all for combining it all, that is the ultimate destiny of martial arts (and everything) after all, right?.

If San da adopted jackets they would pass out. I don't know how long sd rounds are buy I'm assuming they're longer than a sc round. The jackets are heavy and make workouts so much harder.

Oh cmon...

Ive seen wrestlers run 5 miles in 20 mins with plastic bags inside of a sweatsuit to make weight 1 hour before a tourney...

they do that because they have to. Doesnt make it safe

Are you referring to san shou, wrestling, running inside of plastic to make weight, or sanshou with jackets.

Because theyre all relatively unsafe.

Running in plastic is what I was referring to. Plastic isnt breatheable. Atleast the jacket is somewhat breatheable. I don't necessarily lose weight after sweating in a sc class with my jacket on.

Its not supposed to breathe, thats the point. It saps sweat from your body, causing you to lose water weight.

Sometimes you only need to lose 1/8 of a pound to make weight.