Tim, is some degree of body hardening one of the aims of Xing-Yi forms?

My teachers had the idea that correct practice over time made the body "resilient," and better able to take blows. The actual method was to absorb and neutralize the blows as much as possible, rather than trying to take the force.

Tim,
You mentioned that the some of the best people
you saw taking shots were the western boxers.
Am I understanding right in thinking that
those of us who train in boxing gyms (staying
relaxed, trying to build speed and evasion etc.)
to help our IMA skills are basically getting
some "Iron Shirt" training in on the side?
What's your take on getting one's "take a
hit" conditioning in a boxing ring? (For those
of us without regular IMA sparring opportunities)

Brian,
Right, I think if you are training in a boxing gym you're in the right place to learn how to deal with real punches. The conditioning plus the methods of absorbing and rolling with punches will be a big asset to your martial arts abilities in general.

Since you have to spar to learn to fight, any realistic sparring practice (even if it is in a limited venue) is going to help you improve and develop real abilities.

there 9is a very secret form of iron body taught to the highest of beijing police, they were friends of my instructor, their job was to stand surrounding some government building during uprising, and they just stood there, taking shots from all the protesters, etc. the training to absorb those hits was extreme, and it is real,you would move in a fight, however these officers were not allowed to hit back.

Obviously more civilized than the Chinese secret police who were accompanying the British Queen and Prince Philip in the mid-90s when the royal couple were in China and went to tour part of the Great Wall near Beijing. My elderly mother happened to be there with a tour group of seniors and the young Chinese security officers rushed her group as if they were potential terrorists and shoved them all violently out of the way of the royal party. My mother and several others were knocked down by these "gentle" examples of Chinese security. Iron shirt would have been superfluous...

Yes I thought the Chinese ideal of 'iron shirt' when dealing with protesters was to simple wear a tank, then calmly drive over the protesters.

I do hope things have progressed since Tienamen square.

Anyone stupid enough to stand in front of a tank oh-so-richly deserves to be run over and crushed.

Are they as stupid as people who want to punch pitbulls in the head Kenneth?

That young man who died in front of a tank made a statement bigger than any else possible.

To die for a dream isn't stupid.

Dummy

ex-student, with a pitbull, you still have a chance, training dummy, the dream died with the student.

Weren't the original 'Iron Shirt' guys wearing iron shirts?

Wouldn't that mean that all these teachers/practicioners who do 'iron shirt' demos without the 'iron shirt' are a little confused?

Unfortunately, that's not so true. If the owner of the pitbull is not there and the hypothetical dog is not under control--you are in a world of hurt. I believe there was recently an incident in the news about loose pitbulls that mauled some people to death, somewhere in Colorado. Trying to out run the dog would probably result in failure. Last ditch effort--correct me if I'm wrong--give it your weak forearm and punch the throat and neck, if your fist is your only defensive weapon. I once knew a pitbull named Sampson, and he was the nicest dog, when the owner was around--but when he was alone, his instinct was to kill with extreme prejudice. This dog made the unfortunate decision to fight a racoon--this resulted in his death.

As far as the student, he may have been able to walk away or he could have made the decision to not go make a statement that particular day.

a pitbull beaten by a racoon?!!?

Did the dog die of infection? If not the dog was a wuss. Racoons are tough but not pitbull tough.

By the way- giving a pitbull your weak forearm and punching the throat and neck will only aggrivate an angry pitbull. That's really bad advice. External stimuli has little effect on a determined pitbull- you have to introduce internal stimuli or use a breaking-bar in order to make a pitbull release a grip it's decided to keep. Or wait for it to change it's mind and move on to something more interesting than whatever it's holding.

punch it in the throat.... beaten by a racoon...
that's classic.

Doesn't sound like a pit anyway. Pits are not known for turning into monsters when their masters leave. I'll bet it's one of those pit bulls that's really a rottweiler. Or maybe one of those pits that's really a boxer or labrador retriever.

H2O 'Proud Bulldog Owner' Dragon

Sorry fellers but it sure was a pitbull. And it got f---ed up. My best guess is that the raccoon died as a result of the fight and 'ol Sampson went off into the woods to die himself--found two days later. Like I said, that pitbull was the friendliest dog when the family was around, but if not--good luck introducing whateverkind of internal stimuli and I hope you have a breaking bar or whatever. That dog's coat was orange or reddish yellow and it was physically nothing but muscle. LOL H2O--yeah, I think he might have been half poodle. Hardy har har.

I know my advice sucked and sounded silly, but as a last resort--what can you do? I'm sorry, but hoping the pitbull will be internally stimulated as he is approaching to maul me is kind of stupid too.

Solo,

Yep- PitBulls are super-protective. Sampson probably knew that when the family was around any visitor they were okay with was okay. But anyone trying to enter the familial territory when the family was not around would have a fight on their hands.

A friend's Pitbull is like that. If the pitbull gets out and roams the neighborhood- she seems to get along fine with other dogs. However, if she's out taking a walk with the owner or one of her other human friends- and a strange dog approaches she goes into protect-at-all-cost mode and gets brutal. Once on such a walk with me, we were approached by two dogs and the Pit latched onto one of them. After doing all the stupid things (punching the throat- kicking- shouting-begging) I resorted to introducing internal stimuli and she let go pronto.

Here's your last resort: Since I didn't have a 'breaking-rod' handy I inserted my thumb into her anus. Worked like a charm. Drastic circumstances require drastic measures.

Shane

Hmmm, this wasn't quite the argument I had in mind.

Nor does it have anything to do with Iron Shirt training!

I'm going to get me a raccoon, teach it Iron Shirt Chi Kung and take over the world.

You girls crack me up.

Yes, it seems very hard to stay on topic in these threads ... drat it, now I'm off the topic of iron shirts as well!