recently i did about 12 clean presses with about 125 pounds, and after that about 3 days later after i wasnt sore, i noticed that i was using alot of unneccesary tension.

will weight training compliment or impede my progress in the internal martial arts? i know of issuing relaxed power,lol, i had a dream once where my judo instructor was like "soong first then jin follows"

okay rambling over...

"Getting stronger never made anyone weaker".


-Chris

My ratio: If you are 100% better technically and your opponent is 50% stronger, you will be hard pressed to win the fight.

what's a clean press? what's tension?

did you clean a barbell and then press or push-press it? this sounds like a great combo for building power for martial arts. I find it hard to stay 'stiff' when doing Olympic style lifts, but tension is an absolute necessary. Without some sort of compression from your muscles, there's nothing holding your spine in place. Try hitting something while 'relaxed'. The force of your arm moves your torso away from the target, not moves the target as you intend.

if you want, i have some pics of shaolin monks cleaning and pressing some 'stone padlocks' which are kind of like dumbbells or kettlebells if you want to see those. Good stuff.

hey thanks for the reply guys.

Good points Jason.

Rob't.

My experience is that it will impede other training. Not that it isn't good and valuable, but but the problem is 'stiffening' up. For many of these arts is is necessary (or at least better) to be 'loose' like a limp noodle. This is not the same as being flexible. If you can do the weights without losing the looseness, that's the best of both worlds

I'm not sure that "loose like a limp noodle' is what you are looking for in your internal training unless you are not interested in developing self-defense skills.

Functional martial relaxation is not the same as being loosely limp. Martial looseness is much closer to the smooth, boneless use an animal -- or conditioned athlete -- makes of the body.

Relative relaxation is essential, whole body usage is essential, shifting your weight through the three dimensions is essential, on the other hand, being too loose is even less functional martially than being too stiff if we are talking about defending yourself against someone who has skill and experience in fighting.

For those of you that aspire to looseness, watch and learn (wait for Elsewhere, the third dancer):


http://gprime.net/video.php/robotdance

word

LOL!!!!!!! That was very cool and hilarious.

lol, poplocking grooving and breakdancing... those were the days. though i do find the similarities between poplocking and i.m.a. quite close in comparison, which raises the question, "do breakdancers make better martial artists?" i think so.

i took a glance at a magizine called " the journal of asian martial arts" or something like that, in it was an article with a yin bagua style practitioner or master, he stated that weight training causes muscles to develop short and contracted, while the training that he underwent, made the muscles long and loose...go figure...

he also made an interesting point about how martial arts training, internal or external, will not positively bring long life, only a strong body, what brings long life and good health is to keep a positive mind state while you train. for me this has been very beneficial advice to follow.
just take a look at the properties of negative and positive, it makes sense to me... but i wont get into that
just thought id share some gold with y'all

Robert,

Try some body-weight exercises. In my opinion, they build functional, total body strength more effectively than lifting heavy weights, esp heavy weights that isolate muscles.

BTW, I think the WAY you train with weights matter a lot too. Avoid machines, and exercises that isolate individual muscles. E.g Barbell curls, leg extensions.

Do more exercises that stress whole body movements. E.g. squats with free weights

IMHO, body-weight exercises (i.e hindu pushups, squats etc) are more consistent with internal martial arts body strength requirements.


best,


Kelvin

That's excellent advice! Good post.

I agree with Kelvin. Definitely stick with dumbells if you are going to lift weights. They give a greater range of motion (ROM) and the ability to work finer muscles instead of isolation. The most important thing you will want to do is make sure you stretch and do cardio as well BW and weightlifting. Try to keep your heart rate up and don't rest a lot during your workout sessions. Try to incorporate your martial arts into it, like shadowboxing with 2-3 lbs, (careful not to tear anything) timing yourself to see how long you could go. Even though technical skill is a plus, it's your conditioning that will help you survive.

Kettlebells and heavy dumbells are nice to work with, but I would also look at compound lifts like:

Power Clean
Clean and Jerk
Snatch
Deadlift

and also:

Bent over Rows
Bench Press
Squat
Dips
Pullups

Make sure you learn the proper technique from an expert before trying these off the cuff. The best athletes in the world use these kind of lifts to develop power.

thanks, good advice, those hindu squats are no joke

april has said the most important thing here. "Get a coach". Who's gonna learn Ba Gua from a book, or Hsing Yi from a video and be taken seriously. Don't bother with 'personal trainers' either. Go straight to the source. If you are in or near a college, that is your best resource. See if you can talk to the strength coaches, or the kids that are studying it. Go to a sport specific gym like Velocity. There's likely to be a Physical Therapist in your neighborhood that offers sports training for recreational golfers. Approach them and see if they have a sports background, and find out if they'd be willing to coach you for a while. They'll have more appropriate equipment, and will teach you how to move bettter, not buff up. You'd never try to learn BJJ without a teacher, and you'd never practice without a partner, so why not approach strength training the same way?

Mark Verstegen (Athlete's Performance - has trained Mia Hamm, Curt Schilling, Carl Crawford, etc.) advocates training the "pillar" - from hips to shoulders. Isolationist body-building type exercises are not critical like whole body movement supported by this pillar. This seems like the IDEAL 21st century state of the art complement to internal art training methods.

See www.coreperformance.com

what's coolest, is that it is somewhat specific to your input. THey will suggest programs that fit your needs.

I must say however, no matter how great I think mark verstegen is, you should be going to his facility in Arizona, not training from a book.

Also, he's hardly alone in the sports training world. Look up Cook, or Boyle, and you'll find that their beliefs and principles that they base their workouts on are all pretty much the same.

there is no reason why one should not train their
bodies with weight(good weight training like olympic L)and do chi kung and IMA, which i call
central nervous system development and control.
don't discriminate do it all in good proportion
without over doing any one thing, then balance is kept.