Hello Everyone,

I am new to the forums, but have been interested in the discussions here at the Shen Wu Academy. You guys definitely elevate your discussion to different levels than other forums.

Considering this, I wanted to ask everyone (and Tim if he's available) what you thought of some of the Iron Bone type of conditioning that is pervasive throughout a lot of CMA and Muay Thai. I've been practicing it on and off for a few years, but am not sure of it's overall value. I know that I'm able to withstand much more punishment to my hands, forearms and shins than most people who haven't had this practice, but I'm curious as to some of the trade-offs.

For example, this group of martial artists from Ireland seems to know what they're doing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJL8plOiVe0

http://www.youtube.com/user/snoribo

However this gentleman seems to have really caused some damage to his health considering the serious deformity of his hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulXzfJq3Dd0

Some additional notes:
1.) I'm familiar with the concept of Wolfe's Law, about bone density and I'm sure it can be applied to martial arts, but how exactly SHOULD it be applied?

2.) Considering that the goal is to increase bone density without destroying the nerves and soft tissue, I use liniments such as Zheng Gu Shui and Die Da Yao Jui that I use to help heal the soft tissue after Iron Bone practice.

3.) My practice is spread out significantly, so I'm not constantly smashing my bones against stuff all the time, but over periods of weeks or months.

4.) My practice consists of hitting objects with a potential to yield, (such as a punching bag for my shins and forearms and a specialized bean bag for hands) as opposed to hard objects (like an iron rod against my shin.)

So considering all of these elements the question would be: Is it still a useful practice? Or is there too much a danger is the practice to make it viable? Even if not dangerous, are the trade-offs worth it? (For example - Would it negatively affect my hand and forearm sensitivity in my Tai Chi practice.)

I'm really looking forward to your responses. Thanks in advance.

Quizzle

whether it is useful or not is up to you,

will it impede your forearm sensitivity? i dont think so, considering that forearm sensitvity really has nothing to do with the sensitivity in the nerves of the forearm.

There's a discussion around this in the Uechi-ryu forum too.

I've done this type of training for a number of years.

The question I ask the folks that want to know if there's value in this type of training is, what are you looking to achieve with it?

If you want to develop your fighting ability, there are other attributes that you can devote time to that will make you a better fighter.

If you want to develop confidence in your ability to focus through an object and test your ability to withstand the physical punishment then this type of training has merit.

Good training,
Joe

http://www.thestudywithin.com
http://thestudywithin.blogspot.com

Looking at the Commando Training DVD by Dennis Rovere (who trained with one of the students of Huang Bo Nien in the army), when hitting the post Dennis reccomends not to hit with the bones instead with the muscle of your forearm, and so on.

Hey Guys,

Yeah a lot of times, particularly in my training the focus is the replicate shockwaves through the entirety of the bone (like say the whole of the forearm, the whole of the shin or the entire hand) as opposed to a direct impact on a specific bone to hard surface.

But I'd have to say, that though I'm not a super hard practitioner of this type of training, I have found that it has helped me in being able to take harder strikes and as well as in blocking. I'd have to agree that this type of training alone wouldn't make one a better fighter, but it definitely can contribute to a person's ability to endure physical shocks better - which can be useful in a fight.

i have been kicked by muay thai practitioners that rolled their shins.

my leg felt close to broken. they did not understand why I could not continue to spar.

it has merit.

i dont like the shin rolling stuff, its pretty gross, its not going to strengthen the overall integrity of the bone, id rather practice the actual kick.

i'd rather be kicked by you.

ive done shin rolling.

W

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