• Archive through June 24, 2004 June 25 - 01:41 am [20]

I have a DVD by Mike Patterson and he does Shanxi style. The DVD is great and it is very detailed and well explained. I don't know if his DVD's are in the line that everyone is talking about... but they seem really good.

Li Guichang is technicaly a representative of Song Huchen's XYQ, for his (Li Guichang) teacher (named Dong Xiusheng) was a one of Song Huchen's top students. Mao Mingchun is one of Li Guicheng's students. There are several skilled people under Mr. Li but their XYQ was HIGHLY unfluenced by TJQ and traditional Song is very different from what Mr. Li's students practice. That's the reason they have the "sticking and borrowing" characteristics that Tim Cartmel mentioned.

There's no need to go to Taigu to learn orthodox Song family XYQ for there are highly skilled fighters all over shanxi. They are ver selective on who tehy teach though.
It is my personal opinion that no one generates more power than Song family XYQ or Dai famili Xinyiquan.
I could be wrong though.

_______________
Tadzio
www.xingyiquan.org

Mike Patterson does Hebei style XYQ, not Shanxi.

I just reviewed an email I received from him... it is Shanxi style that he practices.

I just visited your website... great site.

Thanks.

Hello sleepydragon, I am glad you enjoyed surfing through my website.

As for Mike Patterson, regardless of what he says, his linneage is no from Shanxi, his power is totally different from ours, stance and body mechanics are all different too. He can say whatever he wants but that doesn't change the fact that what he does is Hebei XY.

I believe you know just a few things about Song family XY (forgive me if I am wrong) so you'll just have to take my word when I say that Patterson doesn't do Song, Che, Jia or any of the other families from Shanxi.

What you can do (and you won't have to take my word on that) is check Patterson's linneage and you'll see that it's far, vbery far from Shanxi.

T.
www.xingyiquan.org

Tired old topic . . . all xingyiquan from Li Nengran is originally from Shanxi . . . 150 or more years ago . . . through the connection to the Dai family.

That said, Mike Patterson trained under Xu Hong Ji who in turned trained under Hong Yixiang who in turn trained under Zhang Junfeng who in turn trained under Zhang Zhaodong in the Tianjin area of PRC . . . Zhang in turn studied with Liu Qilian, who along with Guo Yunshen made the "Hebei" branch of Li Nengran's xingyiquan famous. So whatever Patterson wants to call it for marketing purposes, his xingyiquan is in the Hebei lineage. It's also apparent in the way that Patterson moves and generates power, very distinct from Song or Che family styles.

But what about all those nifty Shanxi forms videos on his website?

nomatter what he says its hebei i do the same xingyi so i know

I forgot to mention in my earlier postings. I also do Hobei style and his hsing i is completely different from mine or any Hobei style I have seen... but then again, I dont claim to have seen or know everything about Hobei or Hsing I.

He also supposedly knows Hebei. Are his Hebei movements different from his supposed Shanxi movements? Also, is Hebei and Hobei different, or just different spellings?

man he dosent know shanxi the best explanation ive heard for his xingyi was said by kenneth fish

I personally think Mr. Patterson is a great teacher and martial artist (and his students can fight). I also hope he doesn't mind me sharing this one part of an e-mail he sent me when I was first getting into IMAs.

"> My specific question is: What style of Hsing I do you practice?

My teachers called it ShanXi.. But, I don't really believe that there
are any pure lineages left any more. Too much "cross pollination" over the
centuries."
------
Tadzio, my teacher does not know the exact lineage of his hsing-i. It has been in his family for generations. It is only vaguely similar to Patterson's. Our Pi chuan is dropping downward, usually with a hammerfist or chop (some say this is "poor" form). Crossbeng also drops your weight into it at the end. Some of the animals share some distictive moves with Patterson's, but others are missing or completely different. Two weapons. Hand and 1/2 broadsword and a spear set.

I personally feel that it is hebei in origin (but without the any bagua influences). It seems to me that the hebei styles that went to taiwan seem to have bagua influences.

Tadzio, can you tell us more about Shanxi? Specifically, how are the animals different?

Hi there.

I have not ebought knowledge about Hebei XYQ t go deep on the differences between it and Shanxi XY, and I also don't usully discuss technical points of Song family XYQ over the Internet (hope you understand).
What I can say is that Song family XYQ has, as its main distincitve point, the use of a very short and shaking power. I've seen a lot of people talking about it and trying to forcefully imitate it but I haven't seen anyone outside the Song family that was able to do it.
The animals and several of other techniques are unique in Song style XY because of the changes made by Songg Shirong, Song Tielin, Song Huchen and other Masters. As an example I can point out the dragon form or the bear form. Eagle and bear are traditionaly trained together but there's a form for each one of them in our family.

As for Mike Patterson, I don't wan't to get involved into this discussion, I am only pointing history here. Check the linneage and think by yourself.

And, just to add, Song Tielin wasn't ONLY Song Shirong's student. Song Tielin was the son of Song Shide, Song Shirong's brother.

All the best,

__________
T.
www.xingyiquan.org

if you do a hammer fist its a good chance its shang thats the only hebei style with a hammer fist used

Tadzio - how many branches of Song family exist and is there an area in Shanxi where a lot of them are in the same general area?

Orrin Monfort-Oregon

Orrin, I answered in a post that seems to have been deleted....
Contact me by email though:

public@xingyiquan.org

i also do shanxi xingyi, and pattersson, as great as he is, does nothing like shanxi xingyi. i do the che style and dai, and nothing from my lineage, or song, resembles even santi that patterson does. its not worth debating though, hes great at what he does, and all thsi ends in arguments, like tadzio said, check the lineage.